Cornflower
journeyman
Reged: 02/27/06
Posts: 63
Loc: Russia
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The difficulty is I don’t know the most of cartoons you reference to. Some of them were on our TV. But when I saw Pinky and the Brain, for instance, I changed the channel at once because I didn’t like the characters and picture at all. On the other side my examples may be unfamiliar to you. Nevertheless I shall try to explain my position. My classification below doesn’t pretend to the completeness. It just helps me to explain my viewpoint.
There are cartoons for little children. They are not interesting for adults at all. I saw an episode of Andy Pandy. It is an example of cartoons of that sort.
There are cartoons for adults. TV programme refers to them as “animated cartoons for adults”. Usually the cartoons are not interesting for normal children. I think Simpsons serial is an example.
There are well-done cartoons and films for children. Often they are interesting for adults too. I enjoyed Aladdin along with my father and elder brother. The first of Harry Potter books may be categorized in this way. They are for everybody. They are fascinating for children and they make some adults to enjoy. I am completely for this category.
There are movies and films for adults. Quite often there is not a child character in them. Nevertheless the films are interesting for everybody. They don’t contain vulgar things and so they have not bad impacts on the children. It is an important feature of films from this category. I adore Soviet film version of D'Artagnan and Three Musketeers. The film version is light in comparison with the novel. There are many songs in its three episodes. It is pleasant and very enjoyable. I remember us fencing with rulers that were our “swords” during the breaks at school. We were under 10 years old. Actually I believe Soviet film version is the best version in the world. Of course, the French may disagree with me. French Fantomas (sp?) series is another example of the movies from this category. American movie The Magnificent Seven was very good. Its main character Chris was a real hero for many boys. Perhaps the movie was better for teenagers than for children. I say “was” instead of “is” because the movie is rather old; it was shot in 1960. What else? Star Wars. I liked it in my childhood. I give my vote for this category too.
There are movies for adults. (I don’t mean pornography). They touch upon subjects that may be interesting for adults. They are made for adults; they show adult people with their problems. It doesn’t mean they are abstruse. Sometimes they are enjoyable. I unexpectedly liked The Devil Wears Prada and Blood Diamond. The movies differ from each other; I mention them together just because they are for adults.
There are cartoons for everybody and for nobody at the same time. They contain rude humour and jokes “below the belt”. Monster House is a glaring example. Don’t tell me that it is a cartoon for children. Shark Tale isn’t for children too. What do the children need watching gangster actions for? Unfortunately the cartoons like those are becoming the mainstream now. It seems the producers forget about the normal difference between children and adults. Let me know if there are age limits on the cartoons like those in the countries you live in.
Let me give an example from the field of music. Junior Eurovision 2005 and Junior Eurovision 2006. Byelorussian girl celebrated victory in 2005. Her triumph was a surprise for me. I make no secret it was a pleasant surprise. I didn’t think European audience would vote for a singer from an unfamiliar country who sang in strange language dissimilar to the European languages. Russian twin sisters won victory in 2006. Why do children from Slavic countries win? I have an assumption. The children don’t sing about things which they don’t understand.
I saw Junior Eurovision 2005 on TV. Of course, I don’t understand every European language. But presenter’s opening addresses gave some idea of every song. The main idea of one boy’s song was “first the love, and then the football”. The singer was a boy, not even a teenager! What did he know about the love? Was it interesting for him?
What Byelorussian girl Xenia Sitnik sang about? She sang, “Together we are the great strength”.
What Russian sisters Masha and Nastya Tolmacheva sang about? They sang “Spring Jazz”:
We are walking round the town The sun is shining People are smiling And gazing at us “Just look how they are alike!” But we are twins, what's the strike? We are walking the busy road We are singing spring jazz song
That the winter is over Incredible winter The winter of 2006 And it is coming again The spring, so young The weather is waking from sleep …
Children sang about simple and clear things. They felt their songs. Children were the children. They looked and comported themselves naturally. It was the naturalness - in a combination with the good vocal qualities - which brought them the victories.
So, I am wholly for childlikeness for adults. I just make an appeal not to forget about the normal distinctions between children and adults; they are not the same.
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Sephia
Supreme Goddess
Reged: 11/28/03
Posts: 876
Loc: MA, USA
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I love the Russian version of the three Musketeers! And the songs in it are great!
-------------------- "Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind
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Cornflower
journeyman
Reged: 02/27/06
Posts: 63
Loc: Russia
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It is pleasant to read. Does English version of Russian version exist? D'Artagnan and Three Musketeers plot is good. Do you know the cartoon Dog in the Boots?
There is another good TV series. I found two English version of its title in the Internet: Naval Cadets, Charge! (USA) and Naval Cadets, Go Ahead! There is less music in it. But the series is good. I didn’t mention it earlier because it’s based on the national plot.
What about Soviet film versions of Sherlock Holmes’s and Doctor Watson’s adventures? I hope the films are known in English-speaking countries. The actor Vasily Livanov is considered to be the best Sherlock Holmes. I heard the British accepted it. Also I heard Elizabeth II had presented Vasily Livanov with some reward for his Sherlock Holmes.
Are some of the films known in the West?
Oh! Good film list is not limited with them.
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Sephia
Supreme Goddess
Reged: 11/28/03
Posts: 876
Loc: MA, USA
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Do you mean Puss in Boots? I never heard of Dog in Boots.
As far as I know, most Russian movies aren't known in the US, besides a few classics like "East-West" and "Burnt by the Sun".
-------------------- "Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind
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Cornflower
journeyman
Reged: 02/27/06
Posts: 63
Loc: Russia
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Dog in Boots is the musical cartoon based on the plot of D'Artagnan and Three Musketeers. The king’s dogs and the cardinal’s cats act in it. Dog in Boots is not a full-length film. It lasts about 20 minutes.
I thought The Cranes Are Flying (the main prize at the Cannes Film Festival, 1958) and Moscow Does Not Believe In Tears (Oscar for Best Foreign Language Film, 1981) are worldwide considered Soviet (or Russian if it is more comfortable for you) classics. When I read your post I thought, “What is East-West? Why don’t I know if it is our classic?” I had to apply to other people for help. They told me the gist of the story. Burnt by the Sun is more famous. The most people saw it, but I, to tell the truth, didn’t. It appeared in 1990s when new “works of art” deserved no credit. However, now I think it is worth to see it because the title is not yet forgot. Nikita Mikhalkov is a respected film director; as far as I know now he is working on (already finished?) the movie Burnt by the Sun-2. Some people like Burnt by the Sun; some people say it is so-so. By the way, in the original it is titled Tired by the Sun. An old tango sounds in the movie. Its text is, “Tired sun was bidding the sea farewell gently. At that time you confessed there is no love…” I know it because my father likes the tune. The first line of the tango Tired Sun (Utomlyonnoye solntse) and the title of the movie Burnt by the Sun (Utomlyonnye solntsem) are consonant.
There is no unique attitude to Stalin in Russian society; but the most people don’t run to extremes. I personally consider we should view Stalin as a historical figure under the context of very difficult and hard historical epoch.
Hmm... I think I should say it. The collection of movies makes to prick up ears. The iron curtain fell, but propaganda machine is still working. On what principle the movies were collected? They are not classics. Moreover, when I ask people I was told the supposition those movies were made especially for sale to the West.
The expression “movie classic” impels me to remember such titles as Officer (Ofitsery), The Carnival Night (Karnavalnaya Noch), The White Sun of Desert (Beloye Solntse Pustyni). Russian cosmonauts have the tradition. They see The White Sun of Desert before each flight. They know the film by heart and nevertheless they see it time and again. Many phrases from the movie got become folk ones. Isn’t it a sign of movie classic?
I do not hope Russian movies to work up American market. Firstly, the USA produce more movies and their market is glutted. Secondly, many Russian movies would not be interesting for Americans. However, to my mind some things are worthy of notice. The Ordinary Miracle might be interesting; it is a fairy tale for grown-up and teenagers and perhaps for children. I can give more titles, but I am afraid it is difficult to get the DVD in the USA. In addition I am guided by my own fancy. I like musical films. Musical films need good dubs.
I mentioned above old Soviet films and movies. To my mind the cinematograph of new Russia has not made great movies yet. However, sometimes good movies appear. For example, I liked Servant of the Sovereign (Sluga Gosuderev) not a long time ago. No a bad word of western life style, no a hint to current problems with the West, nothing of socialistic or communistic ideas (which themselves are not bad). It is just a story from Russian history of the beginning of 18th century. Moreover, its plot was taken from Frenchman’s memoirs. However I am sure the movie will not be known in the USA. It doesn’t form “right image” of “bad Russia”.
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Sephia
Supreme Goddess
Reged: 11/28/03
Posts: 876
Loc: MA, USA
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I've seen some of those films you mentioned (my grandmother has all of them, I think!). I've never really been a big fan of them, they seem to drag a bit, especially the ones with multiple series.
-------------------- "Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind
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Cornflower
journeyman
Reged: 02/27/06
Posts: 63
Loc: Russia
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No wonder. I said many Russian movies would nod be interesting for Americans. Several weeks ago I turn on my TV set. I wanted to see an episode of Tom and Jerry Kids Show; I never saw the cartoons about childhood of those characters before. But in a few minutes my attention was somehow insensibly redirected to a newspaper. Old Soviet cartoon about Winnie-the-Pooh began after Tom and Jerry Kids Show. I began to see it once again. It is nice cartoon for me. I would not surprise if American in my place would act quite the opposite.
As far as I understand it, you were educated in the USA for the most part. Do you remember, for example, Marya, the Wonderful Weaver (Marya-iskusnitsa) or Kindom of Distorting Mirrors (Korolevstvo krivykh zerkal)? I grew up with Alexandr Rowe‘s fairy movies and You Just Wait! (Nu, pogodi!), but not with Spiderman or with Tom and Jerry. It seems to me a narrative tradition resides to Russian culture to more extent. I got used a book or a movie are not unreasonable. That is why I don’t like when special effects or multitude of jokes keep an absence of plot.
I am not a fan of all Soviet movies. Once I saw Girls (Devchata) and didn’t like it. My knowledge of Soviet cinematograph is incomplete. For example, I haven’t seen Alexandrov’s famous films, although I have some idea of them.
I refer to old films because of paucity of new ones (however, the situation is improving now). I know, Rowe‘s fairy tales hopelessly became antiquated. New epoch claims new tales. However, little children sometimes like classic Rowe’s masterpieces.
As for grown-ups, to my mind, Officers (Ofitsery) is an ageless masterpiece. It is a story of strong beautiful people who are true to their duty. If a westerner is not biased against the Soviet Union and don’t object to black-and-white films, the westerner may like it, I think. By the way, the word “motherland” sounds in it more often, than the word “Soviet”; the film fits for every epoch.
The most famous television serial consisting of more than three episodes are The Meeting Place Can't Be Changed (Mesto vstrechi izmenit nelzya) and Seventeen Moments of Spring (Semnadtsat mgnoveniy vesny). I think both of them are not interesting for the most of natural westerners, but they are worth to see for Russian at least one time. Sometimes a viewer needs to know (understand, feel) some things to see them easily.
The Ordinary Miracle consists of two series. I made a reference to it because it is a fairy tale on the neutral background. A viewer may not to guess what country produced it if the viewer doesn’t know it. You may try other films, for instance Gentlemen of Fortune (Dzhentlmeny udachi), or The Prisoneress of the Caucasus, or Shurik's New Adventures (Kavkazskaya plennitsa, ili novye priklyuchenia Shurika).
If you like D'Artagnan and Three Musketeers, perhaps you will like Don César de Bazan. It is another film in which historical decorations and good songs (my two fancies) are connected. It is difficult not to mention film versions of operettas: Mister X, The Bat (Letuchaya mysh), Sylva.
I think our dialog looks strange for others on the message board. Talking about some incomprehensible things… To my mind the main conclusion is we know each other poorly. I was sure Dreiser’s novels were American classics before our conversation in another thread.
Nevertheless I dare say we know the USA better than Americans know us. There are two main reasons for it. The first reason is Hollywood which shows some external manifestation of American life. The second reason is the westernization of Russian life which began in early 1990s: many people here know two worlds. (Sometimes westernization is useful, but I am not a fan of it in the whole, it is not good in many cases).
We discussed literature and movies. What will be the next?
P.S. The movie Burnt by the Sun-2 will be in a year. But I am waiting for the movie Taras Bulba which is in a year too.
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Sephia
Supreme Goddess
Reged: 11/28/03
Posts: 876
Loc: MA, USA
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Please don't think that all Americans are described well by Hollywood. It's a distortion, and only applies to idiots like Paris Hilton..
I love Ny, Pogadi and I liked some of the other things you mentioned, though (for the most part) not the series. I can respect them but after years of Hollywood Cinema, I just expect movies to be simpler. maybe it's partially a cultural thing. While I am not averse to complexity, when I am watching a movie, I expect to be entertained and to not have to think too much. I expect books to be more serious, less black-and-white, and more thought-provoking. Though newer American cinema (just the last few years, really) has been a bit different. Many of the newer American movies I've seen have been somewhat more complex. "Pretty Persuasion" is a perfect example, though I doubt you've seen it, it was not Hollywood, but some independent filmmaker. But, even X-Men 3 was a bit more complex than the first 2.
I don't really know..what do you want to discuss? ;-)
-------------------- "Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind
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Cornflower
journeyman
Reged: 02/27/06
Posts: 63
Loc: Russia
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I live in not a big city. Movie distribution is poor here. I prefer easier (but not primitive) movies at cinema. All classics I know I saw on TV, video cassettes or DVDs. I have no idea how classic movies would look on a widescreen. I go to the cinema for entertainment now but my interests are formed already.
I don’t think all Americans are described well by Hollywood. I am far from the thought to associate an ordinary American with Paris Hilton or any famous American actor or political figure. It is also would be wrong to judge all Russians by my posts.
I say Hollywood shows American outward appearance in some extent. It shows White House, sky-scrapers, Christmas and Santa Claus, Halloween, interior of the churches, American schools and other things which are natural for the USA.
Hollywood doesn’t show the monument to Minin and Pozharsky, the famous building of Moscow State University, Shrovetide, interior of the Orthodox Christian churches, Grandfather Frost (at school we read Farther Frost in our textbook; but to be more certain he is Grandfather Frost – Ded Moroz)… Are an ordinary American familiar with those things? I doubt.
However, I don’t want to be rude. I like many American movies.
My question about the next topic wasn’t a joke. I do want to be here more often. But now the question is rather rhetorical. I have been extremely busy for recent weeks. Tomorrow I'll go on leave (without any computers). After returning I’ll be busy again. So, I’ll be back in several months.
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Sephia
Supreme Goddess
Reged: 11/28/03
Posts: 876
Loc: MA, USA
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Have fun and enjoy your vacation! I don't know how you manage without computers for any length of time.. I am completely addicted!
-------------------- "Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind
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