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Sephia said:
His theories do have merit--people believe them. Even before DVC, people believed in some of them.

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Then they wouldn't be 'his theories'.

Great thread to read guys. I enjoyed it.

With reference to the part about Brown picking his words carefully for the opening declaration about what content is factual it's a pity he couldn't show the same concern for the rest of the book. It's clumsy. You only have to read the first couple of paragraphs of the prologue where Sauniere can quite easily discern the eye colour, hair colour, and more of his attacker despite the attacker being described as fifteen feet away and a silhouette.

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AnomanderRake said:

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How do the WWII history curriculum texts differ for children in Washington, London, Moscow, Berlin, and Tokyo?

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This question can easily be answered by realizing that there is not ONE WW2. There are, in fact, as many different WW2s as there are countries involved. The American WW2 did not exist before 1941. Before then, the 1939-1941 war was a European conflict. Likewise, the European WW2 did not exist before 1939. Before then, the 1937-1939 war was an Asian conflict. They are different wars with the same name (actually, sometimes even different names; the Russian WW2 is called the "Great Patriotic War") because they overlap some of the time.

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…we have never said anything like that! The World War II and the Great Patriotic War were NOT the same! Russians do not mix the wars. For instance, attacking Pearl Harbour wasn’t an event of The Great Patriotic War. The Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union included Leningrad blockade, the battle for Moscow, Stalingrad battle, the Kursk Bulge, capturing Berlin and other battles and operations.

The World War II formally began on the 1st of September in 1939 when Germany attacked Poland. It ended on the 2nd of September in 1945 when Japan capitulated.

The date of the beginning of the Great Patriotic War was 22nd of June in 1941, when Germany broke the non-aggression pact and attacked the Soviet Union. It was Sunday. On the eve of that day the school-leaving parties took places at Soviet schools. Many yesterday’s schoolboys made decisions to go to the front. They were going to the war directly from the school desks. It was impossible to become a soldier if a boy was not of his full legal age. Then, the boys tried to pretend to be elder then they actually were. They were going to The Great PATRIOTIC War of The Soviet Union of Socialist Republics.
The USSR didn’t need the war. Moreover, The Soviet Union wasn’t ready for it. The loss of life was enormous.

The Great Patriotic War of The Soviet Union was the greatest part of the World War II.
Smashing the enemy in the battle for Moscow (1941-1942) was the turning-point. It meant failure of Hitler’s plan of blitzkrieg. Victories of Red Army in Stalingrad battle (1942-1943) and Kursk Bulge (1943) were very important and finally deprived Hitler’s headquarters of the strategic initiative.
Since 1944 the Soviet Army participated in liberation of Europe.

We celebrate The Great Victory Day on the 9th of May. The statement of unconditional surrender of Germany was signed late at night on the 8th of May in 1945. Because of the difference in the time zones at that moment it was already 9th of May in Moscow.

Now I am stopping. If the history is interesting to someone, I am sure, the information can be found. I just ask you to pay attention to THE FACTS.

At schools Russian children mainly study the history of the Great Patriotic War (June, 1941 – May, 1945). Of course, the schoolchildren are told about the main events of the World War II (1939-1945).

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Arras said:

The trouble with such "applied" history is that it produces generations of citizens who are taught a common patriotic fable, which in turn makes its way deeper into the culture of the land, its media, and these "accepted truths" become far more widespread than the "objective truth." The fact that so many people believe X (when in fact Y is the case) can lead to many societal ills, from forms of bigotry like racism and sexism to religious discrimination and outright xenophobia, and eventually more extreme forms of nationalism.

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Alas, it is actually so.
“Applied” education, patriotic fables and implicit belief in own right provoke double, triple, … multistandards. They in turn provoke conflicts between cultures and countries. Sometimes I wonder whether the politicians and historians believe in their own words, whether they actually consider people of their country and other countries to be so silly when they (politicians and historians) talk about “right things”?!

It is easy to say a political leader is/was a villain or an event is/was terrible. It is difficult to estimate a leader or event in historical context. One must not extend current values and models to other countries and/or past periods.

It is impossible to know everything, to know the history and culture of every country you contact with. But if people are ready to respect others, it may prevent many conflicts.

Now look at the modern world. Children have TV channels showing cartoons around-the-clock; they have many toys. Teenagers have music TV channels, Internet, nightclubs; they have the diversity of entertainments.
All those things do not form person of integrity. Diversity of information and entertainments forms eclectic thinking. It is a very grand problem of the modern world. A person with eclectic thinking may claim something in the morning and claim something opposite in the evening; and the person is sure he/she is right in both cases. It is added with propaganda of patriotic fables. As a result the person is sure in things like “if it is good for me, then it is good for everyone”, “my life style is the best in the world”, “if they live not like we do, then they violate human rights”, “they violate human rights and we have the right to improve the situation and we have the right to use our money and/or armed forces for it”. It seems the person has no idea of existence of other cultures, other life styles, other mentalities. The person doesn’t notice the imperfection of his/her own country and life style or perhaps the person notices and forgives the imperfection to the motherland but doesn’t forgive the same imperfection to others. All this reasoning is just a curtain for “they don’t work in our interests, so they are our enemies”. At least, it seems so on another side. As a result, negative sentiments are rising everywhere.
Is it good for anybody?

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Sephia said:
So then, whatever parts of WWII happened in Russia were the Great Patriotic war? It seems like a segment of WWII to me.

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But yeah, history definitely changes. The Russian perspective of WWII in general rather different from that of the Americans, who have some strange ideas. I came very close to laughing in my teachers' faces at some interesting statements during history classes, such as "The US won World War ONE!" An amusing piece of fiction, isn't it?

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It isn’t amusing… It is one of the very things which provoke antipathy and dislike between peoples.

The USA sided with the Entente in WWI. The USA were a member of anti-Hitler coalition. So, in some sense they won both WWWI and WWWII.
But when some people say the USA were the main victor … what reaction are you expecting?

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