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Yai
stranger


Reged: 04/30/05
Posts: 3
Mistake in the book
      #3497 - 04/30/05 06:54 AM

In the book Dan write a lot about the Jewish religion. Very sadly he’s got many mistakes.

He wrote about a sexual ceremony performed in “the holiest of holiness”- “kodesh ha kodashim”.

You need to under stand that only one man was allowed in that room the high priest- Cohen Gadol, he went in there only twice in one day of the year “Yom Cipur”.

Dan also wrote about a female Jewish goddess” Shchina”, this isn’t possible because the first thing in the Jews belief is there is ONLY ONE god only, and god dose not have an identity of male or a female.

The ” Shchina”, is just a figure of speech that indicates gods presence in the room,

Please don’t under stand me wrong I enjoyed the book very much. And many of the historical and cultural fact where true.


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SephiaModerator
Supreme Goddess


Reged: 11/28/03
Posts: 876
Loc: MA, USA
Re: Mistake in the book new [Re: Yai]
      #3501 - 05/01/05 03:43 AM

There are a lot of mistakes, but the female goddess thing he wasn't too far off. In Genesis, there are mentions of a female equivalent to God, though they are rather obscure.

--------------------
"Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind

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Aristotle
stranger


Reged: 05/02/05
Posts: 5
Re: Mistake in the book new [Re: Sephia]
      #3517 - 05/02/05 03:31 PM

Remember that history and historical recounts are only written by the winners and in the winners own words. Perhaps there once was a female equivalent to the Jewish God Yahweh.

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Yai
stranger


Reged: 04/30/05
Posts: 3
Re: Mistake in the book new [Re: Sephia]
      #3521 - 05/03/05 03:36 AM

maybe in the new testament

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AnomanderRake
newbie


Reged: 02/14/05
Posts: 38
Re: Mistake in the book new [Re: Yai]
      #3525 - 05/03/05 02:26 PM

Quote:

Remember that history and historical recounts are only written by the winners and in the winners own words.



-___-;;;

Please don't ever bring up that overused (and frequently inaccurate) cliche again.

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8549176320abc
enthusiast


Reged: 05/02/05
Posts: 219
Loc: UK
Re: Mistake in the book new [Re: AnomanderRake]
      #3550 - 05/07/05 05:54 AM

Why not? history always is what else is the point in wining, as many men may have said; what is the point of living a long life when you can be imortalised by history?

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AnomanderRake
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Reged: 02/14/05
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Re: Mistake in the book new [Re: 8549176320abc]
      #3554 - 05/07/05 12:45 PM

Quote:

Why not? history always is what else is the point in wining, as many men may have said; what is the point of living a long life when you can be imortalised by history?



It's wrong because that cliche does not distinguish between historical accounts and the actual study of history.

"History" refers to the study of past events, not to the chronicling of current events, and thus history is never written "by the winners." It's written by historians who come decades, more often centuries later to study the accounts and who have little to no personal stake in the "winners." Some of those accounts may be written by the winners, but most historians, and certainly all modern historians, look at the accounts written by the "losers" as much as they look at those accounts written by the winners.

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Arras
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Reged: 05/24/04
Posts: 263
Loc: B.C., Canada
Re: Mistake in the book new [Re: AnomanderRake]
      #3556 - 05/07/05 05:44 PM

Quote:

AnomanderRake said:
Some of those accounts may be written by the winners, but most historians, and certainly all modern historians, look at the accounts written by the "losers" as much as they look at those accounts written by the winners.




Ah, but the trouble is that the "losers" typically leave behind a lot less cultural evidence than the "winners" do. In many cases the winners go out of their way to destroy or deface the cultural icons of the losers precisely so that future generations will remember only the victorious side. Monuments are erected by the victors, who have the wealth and the freedom to glorify themselves in ways that will last for millennia, whereas the losers are generally enslaved or impoverished to the point that survival is their foremost concern.

This has been standard practice for thousands of years, particularly among empires--empires thrive on cultural hegemony, so they work to destroy the cultures of the vanquished in order to replace it with their own. This prevents future generations from getting nationalist ambitions and turning on the empire, since the empire is "us" now, and not "them."

This same motivation was behind the co-opting of various pagan traditions and holidays into the Christian tradition--it eased the conversion process, to the detriment of the original faiths. We know relatively little today about Sol Invictus or any of the other religious cults of that era, but our libraries are filled with Judeo-Christian and Muslim history books. The "losers" got a lot less press, precisely because the "winners" worked hard to absorb them and destroyed as much evidence of their existence as they could manage.

In effect, the winners control how much evidence future historians will be able to discover, so in a very real sense the winners do write future history, if not literally. The winner's culture prevails, the loser's culture is suppressed. The winner's genes propagate, the loser's genes tend toward extinction. In the long run, it's the winner's story that gets told, simply because there's more evidence available to support it.

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AnomanderRake
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Reged: 02/14/05
Posts: 38
Re: Mistake in the book new [Re: Arras]
      #3557 - 05/07/05 07:59 PM

Quote:

Ah, but the trouble is that the "losers" typically leave behind a lot less cultural evidence than the "winners" do.



I don't dispute that, but "a lot less" is different from "none at all," and what little IS left behind is probably going to be the kind of evidence that cannot be erased because it is so ingrained into the regional culture. No amount of eradication of a "losing" culture is going to erase those signs of its regional significance.

I'm not even going to touch on the plausibility of a 2000-year-old conspiracy theory like that suggested by DVC. Now that's just plain ridiculous.

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Arras
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Reged: 05/24/04
Posts: 263
Loc: B.C., Canada
Re: Mistake in the book new [Re: AnomanderRake]
      #3576 - 05/08/05 07:57 AM

Quote:

AnomanderRake said:
Quote:

Ah, but the trouble is that the "losers" typically leave behind a lot less cultural evidence than the "winners" do.



I don't dispute that, but "a lot less" is different from "none at all," and what little IS left behind is probably going to be the kind of evidence that cannot be erased because it is so ingrained into the regional culture. No amount of eradication of a "losing" culture is going to erase those signs of its regional significance.




The "losing" side may be more interesting to a historian, but it's precisely because of the challenge posed by the scarcity of cultural evidence. It takes little effort to chronicle the history of the "winning" side, because it's practically everywhere--books, poems, films, songs, monuments, architecture, etc. Finding out who the "losers" really were, though--as opposed to the enemies as described by the "winners" in their stories--is necessarily more difficult, particularly when these events took place long before the historian came along.

Where written records survive to help the historian, they're generally quite scarce and few in number, such that the historian gets only a very limited view of the "losers'" culture. Cultures with oral traditions typically fare far worse--we'll never know much at all about many of the Native American tribes that were eradicated by other tribes before Western historians set foot on the continent. Archaeology can help to an extent, but again, the "winners" leave more clues behind than the "losers" do, so there's necessarily more guesswork involved in studying the "losing" culture on the basis of that more limited evidence.

That the "losers" existed at all is not generally disputed by anyone. The "winners," after all, typically try to paint their victories as heroic struggles against either a villainous tyrant or an honourable rival, so some evidence of the "losing" culture usually survives in the "winner's" version of events. In fact, these biased tales are often the spark that sets modern archaeologists and historians hunting for information about the "losing" side's culture--cultures that we otherwise wouldn't have known existed.


Quote:

I'm not even going to touch on the plausibility of a 2000-year-old conspiracy theory like that suggested by DVC. Now that's just plain ridiculous.




The DVC is a patchwork of conspiracy theories, so I'm not sure which one you're going out of your way not to touch on here. One point you might note, however, is that conspiracy theories thrive on the inability to either prove or disprove them, and that speaks to an insufficiency of available evidence. Speculation rules the day when evidence is scarce, and as we've already agreed, it's the "losing" side that suffers this lack most acutely. It should come as no surprise, then, that conspiracy theories flourish regarding what the "winners" did to the "losers." Any accounts by the "winners" are seen as inherently biased, and the evidentiary record of the "losers" is usually spotty at best, leaving people with a handful of tantalizing clues they can stitch together with whatever explanation suits their fancy. Some historians fall into that trap, too, in an effort to make sense of limited evidence, and conspiracy theorists later use those historians' works as references to support their theories.

Ask yourself, though, how much evidence of our own times is likely to survive the next 500 years--and more importantly, whose culture will be represented by that evidence. That's already a big concern with Google's Digital Library plans. How long will printed books survive if they aren't digitized? Who gets to decide which books are "important enough" to get digitized, and which ones are left to fall into obscurity? Will we see English become the universal language of the digital world, dominating to the detriment of other languages when libraries like Google's only accept English texts and English translations of foreign-language texts? Once again, the dominant culture uses its resources to assert itself to ensure its own survival into the annals of future history, intent on "winning" the culture war. We have a hard enough time preserving the languages and cultures of aboriginal peoples today--how many of those will be irretrievably lost after 500 more years of cultural assimilation?

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