Oedipus
stranger
Reged: 08/04/04
Posts: 18
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I don't know if this is true, but this video (link below)seems to point out a "CONSPIRACY" It raises many valid points about the attack on the pentagon, and has unnerved me...
Note* Im not sure, but this might have innapropriate language in it, I cannot tell because i dont have speakers for my CPU, they are broken.
Conspiracy Video
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AAnnAArchy
Gifted Procrastinator
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 643
Loc: Las Vegas
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There's some really interesting conspiracy theories regarding all of the 9/11 incidents. I can't say that I believe them all, but there's some mighty suspicious circumstantial evidence.
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Arras
enthusiast
Reged: 05/24/04
Posts: 263
Loc: B.C., Canada
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There's certainly plenty of fuel available to conspiracy theorists these days. Just as the intentional burning of the Reichstag gave the pre-WWII Nazis the pretext of an inciting event to react to and seize power, there are those who believe that the neo-cons in the Bush administration were behind the events of 9/11 for the same reason. That theory may have seemed a bit too far-fetched for many to believe, however, but there have been precedents in the U.S., including Operation Northwoods, the details of which finally came to light 40 years after the fact, in May of 2001, when ABC News broke the story.
When people like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, and Kagan were drafting policy documents for the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) in the late 1990's and 2000, they outlined an ambitious design for the United States as the world's lone superpower, which they refer to as "American world leadership". Briefly, they proposed that the U.S. should rebuild its military and put it to use around the world to help spread American values in the service of American business interests. What they lament in their 2000 report (available in PDF format on their website) is that changing the mindset of the American people to persuade them to go along with this plan would take many years, unless a galvanizing, Pearl Harbor sort of event were to occur. It's hard to imagine that the authors of these documents could have been anything but overjoyed by the events of 9/11, which enabled them to put their long-cherished plans into practice.
Is any of this "proof"? Not really, but the circumstantial evidence continues to mount, and that's what makes these games of speculation so much fun 
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StephanieM
newbie
Reged: 11/06/04
Posts: 34
Loc: Arizona
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This administration has proven they are capable of anything,none of it good.
What terrifies me? They have 4 more years to do it in.
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Dan Brownophile
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AJ_Wells
stranger
Reged: 02/21/05
Posts: 18
Loc: LA, CA, USA
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I'd believe it wasn't a plane that hit the Pentagon. Those pictures are pretty convincing. Not to say it's a mass cover-up, but it probably wasn't a plane.
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danaholic
member
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Kent, England
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Have you seen this:
http://www.glennbeck.com/news/05172002.shtml
It's quite intriguing though I'm not sure if I'm entirely convinced.
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danaholic
member
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Kent, England
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I also found this:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html
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doomed
stranger
Reged: 06/25/05
Posts: 8
Loc: East London - England
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I think we will not know the truth about past events until many years into the future and I think, although the events are still fairly recent, they need to be put on the back burner for a while because the truth of NOW needs to be told. People die for lies they truly believe everyday, lives change, globally, because of the fallacies implemented by those in power. And by focusing your efforts on those tragic events that happened yesterday allows 'them' to continue to spread their lies todays.
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TahoeT
journeyman
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 91
Loc: The Main Line
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Quote:
doomed said:
I think we will not know the truth about past events until many years into the future and I think, although the events are still fairly recent, they need to be put on the back burner for a while because the truth of NOW needs to be told. People die for lies they truly believe everyday, lives change, globally, because of the fallacies implemented by those in power. And by focusing your efforts on those tragic events that happened yesterday allows 'them' to continue to spread their lies todays.
Actualy, I think the exact opposite. The lies of the past have to be exposed to explain the lies of today. Iraq was not responsible for 911. There were no WMD's. Why were those planes allowed to continue to fly? What really happened to the plane in Pennsylvania? Why didn't we go after bin Laden? What is the government covering up?
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Tim...
HB's B
http://www.timandvictor.com
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doomed
stranger
Reged: 06/25/05
Posts: 8
Loc: East London - England
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While I agree that these questions need answering I think its more important that the troops in Iraq (and Afghanistan, which seems to have been forgotten, over here at least) are kept alive. Thousands were killed during 9/11, How many have died since? and how many will continue die? The most advanced army in the history of mankind (apparently) seem to be powerless. I truly believe the lives of the many young men and women from all across the globe are more important past lies. I know that you are going to say that they are all connected but while time is spent seeking answers to the beginning question how many more will die?
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TahoeT
journeyman
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 91
Loc: The Main Line
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Quote:
doomed said:
While I agree that these questions need answering I think its more important that the troops in Iraq (and Afghanistan, which seems to have been forgotten, over here at least) are kept alive. Thousands were killed during 9/11, How many have died since? and how many will continue die? The most advanced army in the history of mankind (apparently) seem to be powerless. I truly believe the lives of the many young men and women from all across the globe are more important past lies. I know that you are going to say that they are all connected but while time is spent seeking answers to the beginning question how many more will die?
So we should just stop asking questions? If you want the troops to be kept alive, then it is paramount that they 1) have enough troops to fight the battle; and 2) have the equipment necessary to do it. At this point, they have neither.
They're ill-equipt, ill-trained, and fighting a battle they cannot win by force, alone. Yet, our 'president' keeps saying we're fighting the terrorists of 9/11 and winning the war on terror.
Bull shit.
Why was bin Laden allowed to get away, when we had him cornered?
Why did we go into Iraq in the first place? Iraq had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11!!! THERE NEVER WERE "Weapons of Mass Destruction" (god, I hate that term!) IRAQ HAD NO TERRORISTS! 19 of the 21 hijackers were SAUDI! Why are we such good friends with Saudi Arabia, when the hijackers all came from there? The ONLY explinatiuon is O-I-L.
How many more lives are YOU willing to sacrifice for Chevron or Haliburton profits?
Demanding answers to the lies of the past, while fighting for the truth today, are not mutually exclusive. They MUST go hand-in-hand or we are destined to repeat the failures.
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Tim...
HB's B
http://www.timandvictor.com
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musashi
stranger
Reged: 07/04/05
Posts: 8
Loc: Somewhereville, USA
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I guess you can't be a good conspiracy theorists if you're a God fearing, BBQ-crazed, F-150 owner somewhere in the Mid-West huh? Welp...I'll be back to talk when i've spent a good hour or two listening to Rush Limbaugh and convincing myself that voting Bush had in fact been a good idea after all.  Funny how some people get worked up by the way...
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Cellar Door.
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EVDebs
enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/05
Posts: 272
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Find out more about the wargames going on during 9-11: Vigilant Warrior, Vigilant Guardian, Northern Guardian, Northern Vigilance, etc.
see http://www.oilempire.us/wargames.html#airforce
Was it all "LIHOP" let it happen on purpose, or maybe "MIHOP" make it happen on purpose ? Or serendipity ? And how did a Saudi software company like Ptech get FAA and intell computer access
http://www.madcowprod.com/index45.html
thus taking 'outsourcing' to a higher level than mere call centers in India ...
The biggest question is why the media doesn't report more on this; but again, Operation Mockingbird is still supposed to be around, including CNN and PsyOps-type possibilities
CNN and PsyOps
www.counterpunch.org/cnnpsyops.html
Edited by EVDebs (10/16/05 08:59 AM)
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Shadowglass
stranger
Reged: 07/08/05
Posts: 48
Loc: Canada
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The most important thing to realize in the Pentagon attack (yeah, right) is that if a jet of that size actually hit the building...where was the rest of the plane. I don't always believe conspiracy sites but check this out, the photo alone says volumes:
www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=75&contentid=2141
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EVDebs
enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/05
Posts: 272
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Pretext for war is something that James Bamford has written about
http://www.metacritic.com/books/authors/bamfordjames/pretextforwar
but it can also be argued that LetItHappenOnPurpose or MakeItHappenOnPurpose LIHOP/MIHOP were further options as with the Operation Northwoods scenario leaked out during research into the JFK assassination.
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doodoobutter
journeyman
Reged: 02/20/06
Posts: 70
Loc: New York City baby!
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There was actually an article about this exact topic in the Village Voice (a sort of biweekly free newspaper over here in NY) this week. I picked it up but haven't read all of it yet. It talked about all the conspiracies and all the groups supporting the "9/11 Truth" movement. One alternate conspiracy was that the planes had missiles strapped to the bottom of them that were fired right before the planes crashed (explaining the bright flash of light split-seconds before they collided with the buildings) I'll get back to you guys as soon as I read the whole article.
Here's more info on the Voice:
Wiki site on the Village Voice
Village Voice website
And here's the actual article, as was printed in the actual newspaper, online:
Village Voice - 9-11: What Really Happened?
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So dark the con of man...so dark indeed.
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EVDebs
enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/05
Posts: 272
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I'll settle for the insurance companies now interested in the takedown of WTC-7, which wasn't hit by an airplane or 'falling debris' from WTC-1 or 2, but just seemed to fall into it's own footprint all on its own. Interesting, huh ?
WTC-7 mystery of the 'pull'
""Larry Silverstein, the owner of the WTC complex, admitted on a September 2002 PBS documentary, 'America Rebuilds' that he and the NYFD decided to 'pull' WTC 7 on the day of the attack. The word 'pull' is industry jargon for taking a building down with explosives""
http://www.prisonplanet.com/011904wtc7.html
I've heard it takes around 2 weeks to set up a building for demolishion into its footprint.
But, alas, this is yet another of the 9-11 anomalies.
Edited by EVDebs (02/24/06 04:33 AM)
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doodoobutter
journeyman
Reged: 02/20/06
Posts: 70
Loc: New York City baby!
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I heard about this too (it was in the Voice article). They said the developers said "Pull it" before the twin towers fell, something rather. It's a shame what kind of country we live in where our own government will pull this kinda crap on us. [Sarcastically]All worked well for our president, though. Bush and his minions needed a catastrophe like 9/11 to make their asses look good... 
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So dark the con of man...so dark indeed.
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EVDebs
enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/05
Posts: 272
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doodoobutter
The Pentagon attack could only have been accomplished with the wargames being already known about (see the
http://www.oilempire.us/wargames.html#airforce
weblink showing in detail ) and the Ptech 'insiders' who could give such information to the Saudi/UAE hijackers
Ptech article
http://www.madcowprod.com/index45.html
showing their FAA and NAS computer access, along with other clients tied to intelligence. I understand that Ptech has now changed its name to GoAgile, for what it's worth.
Dollars to Terror
http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17730
""The FBI finally raided Ptech on December 6, 2002. However, no arrests were made and the company continues to operate, and according to Ptech’s CEO, Oussama Ziade, in May 2004, "Ptech still has government agencies as customers, including the White House."...Recently, Ptech changed both the name of the company and of its software to GoAgile.""
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RoseyORyan
member
Reged: 04/03/05
Posts: 128
Loc: Scotland
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Hi all,
Unfortunely, we live in an age of mass 'disinformation' and 'misinformation', one must distinguish between similar- sounding terms, the first is a tatical and strategical endeavour; whilst the latter is primarily a resultant of the first but propogated by the ignorant...we are all guilty of unwitting collaboration to some degree.
WARNING. The www is a double-edged sword.Take care!
Rosey
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EVDebs
enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/05
Posts: 272
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Rosey
'Catapult the propaganda..."
CNN and PsyOps
www.counterpunch.org/cnnpsyops.html
Operation Mockingbird
www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKmockingbird.htm
Yes, Rosey, double check your sources by all means; blowback is a bitch.
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RoseyORyan
member
Reged: 04/03/05
Posts: 128
Loc: Scotland
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Hi EV Debs,
In this murky mirrored hall of deception the golden rule still remains: Don't believe your own propaganda. It can have fatal consequences.
Rosey 
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RoseyORyan
member
Reged: 04/03/05
Posts: 128
Loc: Scotland
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PS.
The three golden rules of MI6 (known as the Golden Mean) are:
Everyone has a secret;
Everyone has a fear;
Everyone has a price.
Rosey.
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EVDebs
enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/05
Posts: 272
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Rosey
But in an aristocratically controlled world, as with the Knights of Malta, CIA, and MI6, doing the bidding of corporations, the entire enterprise is based upon pathological behaviors: see the movie/documentary The Corporation--
""To more precisely assess the "personality" of the corporate "person," a checklist is employed, using actual diagnostic criteria of the World Health Organization and the DSM-IV, the standard diagnostic tool of psychiatrists and psychologists. The operational principles of the corporation give it a highly anti-social "personality": It is self-interested, inherently amoral, callous and deceitful; it breaches social and legal standards to get its way; it does not suffer from guilt, yet it can mimic the human qualities of empathy, caring and altruism. Four case studies, drawn from a universe of corporate activity, clearly demonstrate harm to workers, human health, animals and the biosphere. Concluding this point-by-point analysis, a disturbing diagnosis is delivered: the institutional embodiment of laissez-faire capitalism fully meets the diagnostic criteria of a "psychopath." ""
Rather than supporting real people, our intelligence agencies are preoccupied with serving fictitious 'people'--corporations--with their ultimately anti-social agendas. The book Confessions of An Economic Hit-Man is another fine example.
To even say that there IS a vast conspiracy on anything nowadays draws hoots and guffaws, yet that there IS such conspiratorial behaviours by our corporate masters is beyond denial and so blatantly obvious that, well...I've had to resort to the internet and a blog-like-this to get the word out. The mainstreammedia wouldn't have it any other way.
The Economist magazine would have a collective heart-attack is this ever gets out, snicker ! "He who dares, wins" is the motto of your SAS, I believe. We on the left dare to speak truth to power.
Edited by EVDebs (03/14/06 02:49 AM)
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RoseyORyan
member
Reged: 04/03/05
Posts: 128
Loc: Scotland
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Hi EV,
Interesting paragraph you quote, re, DSM-IV. By these guidelines many of the western world's leading political /corporate/military dudes are suspected psychos... but there is nothing new here. Capitalism has a thing about 'alienation'."Jesus" is another brand-name and the "logos" has become the "logo".
We have the most powerful tool for ascertaining truth before us as we type these words but I fear our little window of opportunity is rapidly diminishing, but fear not, we still have that weapon of last resort...the pen!
Mine is a gold-plated Shaeffer c.1969 in an alligator skin holster.
Rosey (Make my day)
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EVDebs
enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/05
Posts: 272
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Rosey
The weblink to The Corporation detailed synopsis is
http://www.thecorporation.com/index.php?page_id=2 where I copied the text from re DSM IV evaluations. Good movie too !
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Tolland
stranger
Reged: 05/20/06
Posts: 2
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The 9/11 conspiracy theories are my FAVORITE!!! I don't know if I believe them or not though. 
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People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
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8549176320abc
enthusiast
Reged: 05/02/05
Posts: 219
Loc: UK
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I'm very afraid of my government. What can I do to them? What can they do to me? Compare the two.
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Governments offer us safety for our freedom. It is by seeing this safety as false that we are freed.
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EVDebs
enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/05
Posts: 272
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Ptech is a very interesting connection to the wargames of 9-11 and any foreknowledge the 19 terrorists would have had:
""Ptech is used primarily to develop enterprise blueprints at the highest level of US government and corporate infrastructure. These blueprints hold every important functional, operational, and technical detail of the enterprise. A secondary use of this powerful tool is to build other smart tools in a short period of time. Ptech’s clients in 2001 included the Department of Justice, the Department of Energy, Customs, Air Force, the White House, the FAA, IBM, Sysco, Aetna, and Motorola, to name just a few."" (as of April 2005, apparently, also Ptech is now known as GoAgile)
Dollars of Terror
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17730
The wargames ongoing that day,
""9/11 War Game Attribution Description
CIA / National Reconnaissance Office "plane into building" exercise Associated Press, August 21, 2002 simulation of a plane crash into the NRO headquarters (near Dulles Airport, Virginia) - this was not a "terrorism" exercise but it did result in the evacuation of most NRO employees just as the "real" 9/11 was taking place, making it more difficult for the nation's spy satellites to be used to track the hijacked planes
Vigilant Guardian Aviation Week & Space Technology, June 3, 2002, Newhouse News, others (these articles are reproduced below) The publicly available mass media articles about these exercises state that they were similar enough to the actual events that top NORAD personnel were confused, not sure if 9/11 was "part of the drill" or a real world event.
Vigilant Warrior Richard Clark, "Against All Enemies" (March 2004) referenced by Richard Clark.
Northern Vigilance Toronto Star, December 9, 2001 "Operation Northern Vigilance, planned months in advance, involves deploying fighter jets to locations in Alaska and northern Canada." This ensured that there would be fewer fighter planes available to protect the East Coast on 9/11. Simulated information was fed into radar screens - is this what confused the air defenses that morning?
Northern Guardian Toronto Star, December 9, 2001 only mention was in the early edition of this article, no details publicly available (probably related to Northern Vigilance)
Tripod II
US Department of Justice and City of New York Rudolph Giuliani's testimony to the 9/11 Commission, May 2004 biowar exercise in New York City scheduled for September 12, 2001 ""
see http://www.oilempire.us/wargames.html
make the whistleblowing by Indira Singh look to be very important, to say the least. Never heard of any of this information ? MSM is doing their best to keep it that way.
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ash
journeyman
Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 74
Loc: Bombay India
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EV
Maybe whoever calls 9/11 an insider job is missing one point how can Al-Quida be a U.S. creation?
I feel this is sort of denial to the idea that a bunch of religious fanatics actually outwitted world's only superpower.Its very easy to give a simpler explanation than hunting for Osama which is much more difficult from what newspapers say
Ash
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RoseyORyan
member
Reged: 04/03/05
Posts: 128
Loc: Scotland
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Hi All,
Was it mere coincidence that HAARP was switched off prior to the 9/11 attack? We now know there were significant movements of military aircraft over the Northern American Hemisphere...but that would be all the more reason for it to continue its surveillance, re, ballistic missles.
Rosey (puzzled) 
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EVDebs
enthusiast
Reged: 07/10/05
Posts: 272
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Ash
LIHOP, let it happen on purpose, seems just as likely as MIHOP, make it happen on purpose. The neocon PNACers and guys like Dov Zakheim in the DOD with dual Israeli/US citizenship may have had motivations relative to the 'Greater Israel', 'From the Nile to the Euphrates' kind of scenario that OBL is playing upon in the Muslim world with great effect
Eretz Israel HaShlema / Greater Israel
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/greater-israel.htm
Bush has given these religious nut cases a platform to spew their venom and an excuse to practice terrorist jihad; all very predictable btw. Just look at GHWB's "A World Transformed"
"""Trying to eliminate Saddam .. would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible ... We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq ...there was no viable "exit strategy" we could see, violating another of our principles. Furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the Un |
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