AAnnAArchy
Gifted Procrastinator
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 643
Loc: Las Vegas
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Do you imagine Langdon should forgive Teabing for his misguided actions? On the other hand, do you think Teabing should forgive Langdon for refusing to release the Sangreal documents?
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langdon_lover
journeyman
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 66
Loc: England UK
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i don't think Langdon should forgive Teabing, there was no need to threaten them in the chapter house and deceive Aringarosa and Silas. Also Teabing shouldnt need to forgive Langdon, he simply carried on the Priory's secret, like they had been doing for many years
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Arras
enthusiast
Reged: 05/24/04
Posts: 263
Loc: B.C., Canada
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That's a very interesting question, actually. Forgiveness aside, though, what made Teabing interesting as a villain was that like all the best villains, he was convinced of the virtuousness of his actions. No "real" villain ever sees himself as "wrong", "evil", or "bad"--his actions are all in support of a cause that he personally thinks is just. In his mind, he's the hero (as we all are, in our own personal life stories).
In Teabing's view, the Roman Catholic church was the villain, and had a long history of crimes against humanity, not the least of which was the willful suppression of facts for the sake of maintaining social control and obtaining power and wealth as a consequence. Opus Dei was an extreme example, and in manipulating Aringarosa and Silas, Teabing very likely saw himself as using one villainous faction against another--no different in his mind than turning a drug dealer against a murderer.
Teabing's willingness to condone the murder of others to achieve his virtuous goal is yet another bit of rationalization on his part. Imagine for a moment that you could cure cancer or AIDS, but that it would require the sacrifice of a handful of people. To save untold millions, you have to kill...five or six. In Teabing's mind, lifting the yoke of oppression and the veil of ignorance from the eyes of the masses was well worth the handful of lives it would cost. He was Neo in the Matrix, about to crash the machine, destroy the illusion, and set the world free. The sheer nobility of his end goal made the means seem justified.
In that sense, Teabing is a very believable, even sympathetic villain, and depending on your personal views on the subject, it's even possible to find yourself rooting for him.
Forgiveness, then, I think comes down to whether you think one side or the other was exclusively right or wrong. Unfortunately "rightness" and "wrongness" vary according to one's perspective. Teabing certainly thought he was right, and that Langdon's actions were "misguided", let's remember. In Teabing's view, Langdon had just "killed" far more people than he had, thanks to the suppression of the truth and the continuance of the Church's abusive reign.
Ironically, both Langdon and Teabing might be rational enough to forgive one another, given the ability to see the other side's passionate convictions. Knowing that the villain--whoever he is, relative to yourself--had good reasons to believe he was doing a virtuous thing makes it easier to forgive him, even if you think he was dead wrong.
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Sephia
Supreme Goddess
Reged: 11/28/03
Posts: 876
Loc: MA, USA
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Teabing truly is an interesting villain, and I think that Langdon, while not forgiving him, per se, should at least keep in mind the fact that he was doing what he thought was right. While misguided, his ideals were noble. I would forgive him, I think. Maybe not entirely for all the things he did, but overall, yes.
-------------------- "Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind
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Brookin
stranger
Reged: 10/04/04
Posts: 10
Loc: Preston, Lancs,Eng
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how many people did the church kill to get their "story" across? Teabing would have got nowhere near
-------------------- Brookin - mental cookin'
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NeverEnding
journeyman
Reged: 09/27/04
Posts: 56
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Teabing was a crazy old goon who lost his mind while studying the sangreal documents. I dont know about you guys, but to me, that spells out a loving character.
-------------------- "Beware of the man whose belly does not move when he laughs."
Some Asian person
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Arras
enthusiast
Reged: 05/24/04
Posts: 263
Loc: B.C., Canada
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Quote:
NeverEnding said: Teabing was a crazy old goon who lost his mind while studying the sangreal documents. I dont know about you guys, but to me, that spells out a loving character.
I don't think the issue here is whether Teabing was "a loving character", but rather whether his actions were forgivable. He masterminded the killings of a few people (and committed one murder himself), and set up Aringarosa and Silas to take the fall for it. Are there any circumstances under which these actions could be justified? That's the heart of the question, here, really.
If we knew nothing more than I've just outlined here, a knee-jerk response of "no" would probably come naturally. Murder = Bad, after all, and framing others for it only compounds the offense. It speaks of malicious intent, a contempt for the victims in question.
On the other hand, suppose for a moment that we were talking instead about a politically-motivated assassin in a nation being run by a tyrannical despot. With the evil tyrant in power, oppressing the citizens, millions live diminished lives. One man--our hypothetical assassin--finally gets up the courage to do what he sees as his patriotic duty, and devises a plot to assassinate the tyrant, for the good of his country. A few people stand in the way of his plot, however--misguided souls who wittingly or otherwise aid and abet the tyrant's regime--and he has to make the difficult decision to eliminate these obstacles in order to save millions of his fellow citizens. It takes great strength of conviction and courage to follow through with such a repugnant plan, and in spite of the sacrifices made along the way, the assassin would likely be viewed as a hero in the end--if he was successful.
Teabing saw himself as the patriotic assassin in that analogy, with the Church as the tyrant. Putting a stop to that tyrant was his goal. In addition to the more commonly-known historic abuses of power by the Church (e.g. corrupt popes, indulgences, sex scandals, etc.), Teabing's research had uncovered a deeper conspiracy of deception. Incensed and outraged by what he'd uncovered, he was finally imbued with enough courage to do something about it. He carefully formulated his plot and set it in motion, doing what seemed very much like the "right" thing.
In the end, it's all about perspective, though, and since the DVC was written from Langdon's point of view we see it through his eyes and with the filter of his morality. From the perspective of a scholar just as knowledgeable but not so emotionally involved in the subject as Teabing, Teabing comes off looking like the Bad Guy. Had the book been written from Teabing's perspective, of course, Langdon would have looked like the Bad Guy, an obstructionist defender of an indefensible regime. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom-fighter
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