danaholic
member
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Kent, England
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Quote:
langdon_lover said:
computers are man made...so people that design them are bound to know everything about them. and technology is certainly advancing, so surely it is a good idea to learn for the future as they are becoming a bigger part of our lives every year
Well said, langdon_lover, even if that was my point to begin with...
Adding to that, in ten thousand years, no body is going to try and come up with theories explaining why we have computers. Technology is what we have created and therefore it is in our power to know everything about it.
Back to my original point, there is no way to know the truth about how the Universe began. Why are we taught that the 'Big Bang' in school when we can be taught a range of different theories and then come to our own conclusions?
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AAnnAArchy
Gifted Procrastinator
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 643
Loc: Las Vegas
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I wasn't taught the "Big Bang" in school; we were taught evolution. Those crazy Southern Californians. 
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Arras
enthusiast
Reged: 05/24/04
Posts: 263
Loc: B.C., Canada
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I imagine (and would expect) that what you're taught depends largely on the type of school you attend. The separation of church and state may be a noble goal, but it's not as well-implemented as it should be. As a result, some schools are more secular than others, so there's little consistency in terms of what students learn about these "big issues".
Religious schools--typically privately-funded institutions, except in countries with "state religions"--have every right to espouse their religion's views about the origins of life, the universe, and everything. The presumption is that everyone attending such a school is already an adherent of that religion, and shares some common beliefs about these matters.
Secular schools--typically taxpayer-funded, public schools--have an obligation to accept students regardless of their religious beliefs, so such a school could host Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. all under the same roof. Secular schools have every right (and indeed a responsibility) to avoid teaching any particular religion's creation stories, and to keep religious issues within that narrow context, lest they be seen as endorsing one religion over another. The presumption with secular schools is that religion is something each student should be studying elsewhere--at home, at church/temple/synagogue/mosque, etc.
The "Big Bang" theory is just a secular model of the formation of the universe, a kind of generic Genesis that can be explained in scientific terms and without regard to any particular religion.
Mind you, every religion's creation story can be made to fit with the "Big Bang" theory in one manner or another--they're not mutually exclusive. If science can explain things as far back as picoseconds after Time Zero, there's still room for debate about the inciting incident itself. A number of purely scientific theories are available, certainly, but any religion's god(dess) could also be credited with lighting that first spark.
What's more troubling for both religion and science, ironically, is the nature of time. If time began at Time Zero, what existed before that point, and how did it get there in the first place? If God lit the fuse at Time Zero, where did God come from? Whichever model you choose, you have to make some uncomfortable assumptions to make that model work, thanks to the troubling issue of time 
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Arras
enthusiast
Reged: 05/24/04
Posts: 263
Loc: B.C., Canada
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Quote:
Sephia said:
What I mean is that if humans evolved from apes, what about the missing link?
Much has been made of this "missing link", and while it remains one of the unsolved mysteries of science, it's also something that very few scientists lose sleep over. That's because biologists since Darwin's day have done an impressive job of mapping out the "chain" of evolution across thousands of species, in ways that continue to support (and therefore reinforce) their evolutionary model. The fact that in one particular species chain there happens to be an evidence gap somewhere in the middle doesn't invalidate the model, it just means that it has yet to be found, or that it can't be found for some practical reason (e.g. climatological disaster, geological conditions, etc.).
It's a bit like assembling a jigsaw puzzle. At first you don't even know what the puzzle is supposed to look like, but you start fitting together the pieces that mate with one another, starting with the border pieces, and eventually you begin to see that on the whole it's a picture of a sunset over the ocean. You can draw that conclusion long before you have all of the pieces in place, though--a few missing pieces here and there don't prevent you from seeing the big picture. You know that it would be nice to find those missing pieces to complete the puzzle, but they're unnecessary for showing you the overall design. More to the point, you know that those missing pieces exist (or existed at one time), and you have a good idea what they should look like--those missing pieces in the middle of the ocean portion of the puzzle should be bluish and textured like water, not a portion of a person's face. If the missing piece did turn out to be a representation of a part of a human face, you'd have to conclude it was part of a different puzzle--it would not make you lose all faith in the correctness of your sunset-over-the-ocean puzzle.
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AAnnAArchy
Gifted Procrastinator
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 643
Loc: Las Vegas
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Awww, Arras, I've missed your posts.
<<Secular schools--typically taxpayer-funded, public schools--have an obligation to accept students regardless of their religious beliefs, so such a school could host Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. all under the same roof.>>
Yep, I went to a public school. I don't even remember anyone in my school being particularly religious, which was a relief to me as a double religious minority -- culturally Jewish, religiously atheist.
<<If the missing piece did turn out to be a representation of a part of a human face, you'd have to conclude it was part of a different puzzle--it would not make you lose all faith in the correctness of your sunset-over-the-ocean puzzle.>>
I like the analogy. Something easy to understand for my simple mind.
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Sephia
Supreme Goddess
Reged: 11/28/03
Posts: 876
Loc: MA, USA
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I also congratulate Arras for the puzzle analogy!
I went to a "secular", tax-payer funded public school. We were never taught the big bang. We were taught evolution only objectively. We were told that the theory existed, nothing more, and that we did not have to believe it.
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"Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind
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NeverEnding
journeyman
Reged: 09/27/04
Posts: 56
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Sorry everyone. I was meaning to say that not even attempting to learn about stuff we dont know is just foolish. But i am getting tired of people talking about stuff they have no clue about. So please, please, PLEASE, research your theories and make sure they're sound before you post them, or your just setting yourself up for disaster.
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"Beware of the man whose belly does not move when he laughs."
Some Asian person
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AAnnAArchy
Gifted Procrastinator
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 643
Loc: Las Vegas
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Look, this board isn't full of experts, so you're generally going to get the layperson's view of things. If it makes you so unhappy, then I think you need a more specialized board. We're just regular folks, talking about books we like and stuff we liked in those books. Unless someone professes to be an expert in a certain subject, I don't think their theories need to be overly researched. This isn't school, it's just a discussion board. Yes, there are a couple of people here well-versed in religion and history, but they're more a rarity and not the norm.
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NeverEnding
journeyman
Reged: 09/27/04
Posts: 56
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All im trying to say is that the same thing is happening on this board as with Browns "The Da Vinci Code" They are easily buying into other people theories even if they only have a grain of truth. So in order to prevent falsehoods from spreading, at least have a general idea of what your saying.
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"Beware of the man whose belly does not move when he laughs."
Some Asian person
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langdon_lover
journeyman
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 66
Loc: England UK
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well make sure you have a general idea of what your saying too.
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