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SephiaModerator
Supreme Goddess


Reged: 11/28/03
Posts: 876
Loc: MA, USA
Re: Religion vs Science new [Re: da_nick_code]
      #8028 - 06/09/06 03:32 AM

Logic tells us no one can prove a negative.

Thus, "God does not exist" is impossible to prove.
(of course, so is the opposite...)

--------------------
"Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind

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kyrus
stranger


Reged: 03/16/06
Posts: 23
Loc: France
Re: Religion vs Science new [Re: Sephia]
      #8082 - 06/13/06 09:04 PM

The fool says in his heart - there is no god...

This is merely because the fool has not yet designed it for himself, and when he has, he is still the fool.

--------------------
my website

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mrvica
stranger


Reged: 12/08/06
Posts: 7
Re: Religion vs Science new [Re: AAnnAArchy]
      #8531 - 12/08/06 06:32 AM

If you live in world without science, than you are a cave man, and if you live without religion... than you have no faith... Answer is simple... live this life...with both of them...

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PhiPI
stranger


Reged: 11/02/05
Posts: 32
Re: Religion vs Science new [Re: mrvica]
      #8565 - 12/28/06 05:52 AM

I had appendicitis when I was 8. I was rushed to the emergency room where they did x-rays and surgery under sterile conditions.

In a world without science I would be dead. The doctors even told me if I had waited two more days I would have had a ruptured appendix gone into full sepsis and died.

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PhiPI
stranger


Reged: 11/02/05
Posts: 32
Re: Religion vs Science new [Re: PhiPI]
      #8566 - 12/28/06 06:07 AM

Actually, in a world without science at least half of the posters on here would be dead.

No immunizations. No medicine. No hospitals. No ambulances. **No antibiotics**

If you break a bone playing football, you could easily die of infection or be crippled. There would be no plaster casts and no infection control, no way to stop severe bleeding. You could die of the measles, smallpox, mumps, things science has eliminated through vaccines. Everyone would have body lice. You could have died in childbirth along with your mother, those of you born through a c-section. There would be no air conditioning in California, and no central heating for those that live in the mountains. No apartment buildings as those require some knowledge of geometry and engineering. Pets could have rabies and epidemics spread by flies or rats like the black plague would wipe out whole towns with no cure.

Then we'd probably be too flea-bitten, infected, and freezing cold in the snow, those of us that are alive, to be interested in science vs religion discussions

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Arras
enthusiast


Reged: 05/24/04
Posts: 263
Loc: B.C., Canada
Re: Religion vs Science new [Re: PhiPI]
      #8568 - 12/28/06 09:14 AM

Quote:

PhiPI said:
Then we'd probably be too flea-bitten, infected, and freezing cold in the snow, those of us that are alive, to be interested in science vs religion discussions




Oh, absolutely, but don't stop there--you're just scratching the surface of the implications. Without science (and the technology that scientific thinking enabled us to develop), much of the lifestyle that we take for granted in the "civilized" world would not be possible. We'd be living in trees, caves, or earthen burrows dug by hand, since "buildings" by definition require an understanding of spatial geometry. We'd live by daylight, without electricity to light our nights or power any of the machines that make modern life possible. Our days would be spent almost entirely in the pursuit of food, with little or no time left over for "esoteric" pursuits like art, philosophy, or any of the other hallmarks of "great" civilizations.

But really, the whole "religion vs. science" argument is specious to begin with. Science, after all, follows from the combination of curiosity and a capacity for logical reasoning, both of which are considered to be innate human traits. If you posit that God created human beings, then you must also accept that He gave us that curiosity and that capacity for rational thought, ergo God made us all scientists.

The Genesis story about the Garden of Eden in effect is a parable about the religion vs. science debate. There the Tree of Knowledge represents science, and God's commandment not to eat its fruit represents the commitment to blind faith that religion demands. Adam and Eve had an opportunity to remain blissfully ignorant, letting God take care of everything for them, but in choosing to eat an apple from the Tree of Knowledge they were doomed to have to figure everything out for themselves. The Genesis story served the interests of its authors, of course--the clergy who sought to use it to encourage people not to think too much and to follow their moral authority--but at the same time the story acknowledges that there's no turning back from the opening of the human mind. We can't go back to the Garden of Eden--to that level of ignorance--much as some people would like to try.

The thing about science is that it's not a recent invention, contrary to the way many people seem to view it. It was not something that humankind developed all of a sudden during the 18th Century, despite the impression that a lot of textbooks convey. Science goes back a lot further, well past the ancient Greeks and the Arabian Golden Age. It goes back to the first waking moments of humankind, when we discovered--by deduction from experiment--that it was more effective and safer to hunt food animals with tools than to use our bare hands and feet. Early man observed what worked and what didn't, and used scientific thinking to refine his tools, first sharpening stones to cut meat and then recognizing that a sharpened stone at the end of a long stick was a clever way to kill dangerous prey without getting too close to the teeth and claws. Just because it didn't take place in a laboratory doesn't make this process any less "scientific"--it's how our minds work, whether you believe that we evolved this capacity or that God gave us this capacity.

Viewed in that light, then, science is the perfectly natural and inevitable "winner" of the debate; to live exclusively by religion would mean having to suppress a fundamental aspect of our nature as human beings--and indeed, one of God's gifts. Why would God give us minds so capable of reasoning and gifted with curiosity if He did not want us to use them? As even the Genesis story concedes, we're stuck with scientific thinking whether we like it or not--it's faith about which we have a choice. Do we want to choose not to wonder how the world works? Do we want to choose not to wonder whether there might be better ways to live our lives? To suppress our experimental natures, our natural curiosity, our ability to learn?

It's generally crowd-pleasing and least offensive to say that religion and science can happily coexist, but I don't think sitting on the fence really accomplishes anything. Living with both religion and science means drawing artificial partitions in the mind--deciding that some things are open to exploration, experimentation, and study, while other things are beyond questioning. It's a neat trick of the human mind that we can carry on this kind of balancing act, allowing ourselves to be intensely curious about some things yet willfully resisting that curiosity when it comes to the tenets of faith. A life based on faith alone would be very difficult to lead in a world surrounded by modern techology and medicine, though life based on science alone (i.e. atheism) is increasingly common. Still, most people seem to sit somewhere on the spectrum in between, picking and choosing their articles of faith--trust in Allah, but tie up your camel

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ash
journeyman


Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 74
Loc: Bombay India
Re: Religion vs Science new [Re: Arras]
      #8573 - 12/29/06 05:27 PM

Hi Arrass

Good to see one of the oldhands still hanging around.Yep most modern educated people sit somewhere in between. The way I would put it ,put your gods under water ( traditional hindu way when demanding healing,sounds atrocious? it is)but go to doctor when you have Malaria.

Again many religions encourage debate about religious aspects as we have discussed so many times over these forums. It is only religions of Abraham resist any questioning of thier faith.
Good to be back
Ash

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Solomon
stranger


Reged: 03/02/07
Posts: 8
Re: Religion vs Science new [Re: TahoeT]
      #8637 - 03/02/07 04:54 AM

religion-science-in XXIc. - BIGMIX

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MsKrum
stranger


Reged: 07/06/06
Posts: 12
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
Re: Religion vs Science new [Re: Solomon]
      #8692 - 04/12/07 12:59 PM

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”
-Albert Einstein

Why Science VERSUS Religion? Why not Science and Religion- Like Leonardo Vetra in A&D.

I think it can be both, not one or another.

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8549176320abc
enthusiast


Reged: 05/02/05
Posts: 219
Loc: UK
Re: Religion vs Science new [Re: MsKrum]
      #8715 - 04/24/07 08:46 AM

Ultimatly religion can mean two things - an atempt to undersatand the world spirtualy and moraly or a setof dogmatic principles which must be belived regardless of the facts. The fist compliments science very nicely and helps form a more rounded individual the second creates closed minded inquistion leaders and witch hunters.

--------------------
Governments offer us safety for our freedom. It is by seeing this safety as false that we are freed.

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