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ktmason
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Loc: Texas
Ready to give up
      #8900 - 01/16/08 05:22 AM

Well, its 2008, a new National Treasure is out, more Masonic books are in print, and still no Dan Brown. Since the movie didnt really do so well, and the movies (and books) told a MUCH better, more exciting, and more accurate story, do you think that Dan may have given up? Thoughts please.

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Sephia
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Reged: 11/28/03
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Re: Ready to give up new [Re: ktmason]
      #8903 - 01/18/08 01:22 AM

Yes. I really doubt that he is going to write anything more. He let the public completely lose interest in him, and it seems he'll go down in history as yet another one-hit wonder.

(one hit, since only DVC was ever really immensely popular)

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"Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind

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Arras
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Re: Ready to give up new [Re: Sephia]
      #8905 - 01/18/08 06:01 AM

Certainly The DaVinci Code will be a very tough act to follow. Brown may well have cut short his writing career by playing his high-value cards too early--the aces are on the table now, and even if he comes up with kings and queens for a sequel it will be seen as a failure.

As many writers will tell you, early success--even on a much more modest scale than The DaVinci Code--is one of the worst things that can happen to a writer. Thereafter everything you write gets compared to your early masterpiece, and it's almost always an unfavourable comparison. In large part this is because the original work sparked a pop culture phenomenon by jabbing a lot of people in a sore spot with a sharp stick, and once people lose their sensitivity it doesn't work again unless you allow a long enough period to elapse between attempts--years, usually, and sometimes an entire generation.

It's also often the death of creativity in your career, since your fans all want you to write sequels and don't care much for any new and unrelated works you might want to write. This will be a problem for J.K. Rowling in her post-Potter career. There's enormous pressure (and big money on offer) to return to the characters and worlds that made you famous, even if you've run out of clever things to do with them. It's rare that an author with that degree of success manages to carry that success over to unrelated future works.

The other problem that early success leads to is the desire to keep upping the ante in an attempt to make the next book more thrilling and more controversial than the last. Whatever worked the first time, let's take it up another notch! You can't keep doing this indefinitely, of course, any more than you can keep increasing the tension and suspense in a story without eventually relieving it. Pretty soon Robert Langdon is exposing a conspiracy by lizardmen from Zeta Reticulon--who were naturally behind the events of 9/11, in collusion with a secret cabal of former world leaders, Masons, and the Pope, who've been plotting this since the Roswell crash in 1947! Once the shark has finally been jumped, interest dies off quickly, and usually with some disgust. Better to "leave them wanting more", as the show business adage goes.

On the plus side for Brown, The DaVinci Code has likely set him up for life, financially, so he can retire quietly on a high note. Much as there's reader demand for a sequel, writing an inevitably disappointing follow-up would tarnish his legacy. The more he tries to write at this point, the more The DaVinci Code looks like a fluke--an accidental success that owed less to Brown's writing skills than to its controversial subject matter.

On the other hand, what may be best for Brown--if he still has any interest in pursuing a writing career--is simply to start writing under a new alias for a while. He can even pretend to be one of his own imitators--a writer trying to cash in on The DaVinci Code's success by writing a "better" sequel. That way the pressure is off, and if his new books fail people will merely say, "he's no Dan Brown."

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Sephia
Supreme Goddess


Reged: 11/28/03
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Re: Ready to give up new [Re: Arras]
      #8909 - 01/18/08 04:45 PM

That's what JKR is planning to do with her next children's book--find a new pseudonym, so they won't be considered any kind of comparison to Harry Potter. I suppose that works if the author is talented. Yet, playing off earlier successes is a sure way of selling copies of the books, even if they aren't as good as the last ones.

--------------------
"Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind

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ktmason
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Reged: 11/30/05
Posts: 172
Loc: Texas
Re: Ready to give up new [Re: Arras]
      #8911 - 01/21/08 06:21 AM

Actually Aarras, I think he didnt take advantage fast ENOUGH! A&D was good, and DVC was a decent follow up. He really should have started the sequel sooner. I really think he got greedy with the publicity and went after all that star power and let it all slip away.

Now, to many jumped on the book band wagon, NT2 is own with more movies promised, and DB has been passed by. Whatever he puts out now, it will NEVER live up to DVC. HE let it, and ALL HIS READERS down.

I think the name of his board should be changed!!

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KTMason

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EVDebs
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Reged: 07/10/05
Posts: 272
Re: Ready to give up new [Re: ktmason]
      #8920 - 02/14/08 02:19 PM

ktmason,

I think DB can redeem himself and follow up on the long thread regarding a Third Temple in Jerusalem ... see

http://www.cultofdanbrown.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5334/page/1/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1

The info contained in that thread is enough for DB to write a damn good novel out of, and the added benefit of exposing the Third Temple madness the news media never discloses yet allows novelists like Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins and others to carry on with along with the "Arab street's" Mahdi fascination.

Just think, DB can have EVERYBODY pissed at him by writing this novel.

Don't worry, ktmason, I think DB reads this website and if he's smart he'll do what I'm suggesting.

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ash
journeyman


Reged: 11/29/05
Posts: 74
Loc: Bombay India
Re: Ready to give up new [Re: EVDebs]
      #8921 - 02/19/08 01:25 AM

HI EV

Since u communicate only thru posts here and guess dont bother to read mails. Sol and few others have started a new forum on halexandria.org.He will be surely happy to welcome u

Ash

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ktmason
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Reged: 11/30/05
Posts: 172
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Re: Ready to give up new [Re: EVDebs]
      #8922 - 02/20/08 12:08 AM

Yes, EV, even God listens to you.
Say, I'd really like to hear (well, read) your thoughts on this:
TECHNICALLY, Herods Temple is the THIRD temple...he DID really tear down Zerubbabel's Temple (though the sacrifices continued...hence Herod's is still called the SECOND temple), to do his "remodeling", and in fact built a new temple. Couldn't DB use that little tid bit and force a conspiracy?? After all, the Ark, etc, were not there.
What'ya think??

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KTMason

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EVDebs
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Re: Ready to give up new [Re: ktmason]
      #8925 - 02/24/08 02:03 PM

Yep, from my lips to God's ears ! But seriously, Mt. Moriah, the Temple Mount, can be the only site for the Temple,

http://www.templemount.org/moriah2.html

and

http://www.templeinstitute.org/birds_eye.htm

Means that de facto another Temple being built will be viewed as the Third Temple. In my view of this, an unnecessary Temple but that's IMHO and will cause offense to many.

Don't give up the ship, ktmason. BTW, I haven't seen the new National Treasure flick, re Lincoln's assassination, what do you think of it ?

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EVDebs
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Re: Ready to give up new [Re: ash]
      #8926 - 02/24/08 02:04 PM

I'll look up that site. Sorry of lack of communication but I've been waiting for the movie and nothing seems to be coming down the pike with Dan Brown so I checked back into this site.

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ktmason
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Reged: 11/30/05
Posts: 172
Loc: Texas
Re: Ready to give up new [Re: EVDebs]
      #8927 - 02/26/08 10:42 AM

Actually, it wasnt up to snuff. Dragged a bit to much, and the plot wasn't thought out enough. The bit on the Presidents book was interesting, but was NOT fleshed out, which what I, and I bet thousands of conspiracy folks, really went to see. Left open for a sequel (of course)maybe it will be used there. It was sort of like waiting for S.K., and when reading it you find out it wasnt worth waiting for!!!!!!!! Wait for the DVD.

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KTMason

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ktmason
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Re: Ready to give up new [Re: EVDebs]
      #8928 - 02/26/08 10:50 AM

Sorry, but forgot to add--you do realize, of course, that to build another temple there would mean the mosque would have to go, which would start ww3?

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KTMason

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EVDebs
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Reged: 07/10/05
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Re: Ready to give up new [Re: ktmason]
      #8932 - 03/02/08 01:42 PM

That's precisely my point, ktmason. Sol, Ash, and I and a few others (it's a long long thread) were constantly going over why some evangelical groups seem to want to make this happen (see John Hagee and the Left Behind authors). It's nutz, but that's what's going on in the world today. And on the other side you have the believers in the Muslim Mahdi, who fit precisely into eachothers bogeyman categories conveniently.

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KnightShadow841
stranger


Reged: 02/24/08
Posts: 3
Re: Ready to give up new [Re: EVDebs]
      #8933 - 03/03/08 08:42 AM

I have my own theory of sorts about why Dan's novel isn't out yet. I may post more later when I have time right now I have to get going for work.

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ktmason
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Re: Ready to give up new [Re: EVDebs]
      #8934 - 03/04/08 01:54 AM

And you are correct. While a Christian, and a minister,(yes, I am an ordained Priest in the Traditional Episcopal Church) I will be the first to admit there are far to many pushing agendas. I have NEVER been able to understand the need for the followers of the Prince of Peace to hurry the end of time. They sit all day, and study Revelation, and try to make everyday fit into it. I always tried to teach that if my congregation ACTED like Christians, it wouldn't matter WHEN Christ came again, they would be ready. After all, Jesus Himself said that even HE didn't know the time or day He would return. To bad He didn't have the internet, huh?

As a Mason, and Knight Templar, I always felt it was better to go about doing good, and helping our fellow man....we ARE our Brothers Keeper. The G.A.O.T.U. has left for us signs showing the way, if we would just follow them (now theres one for you EV--I am sure you were wondering when I would get to that!) but its up to us to change things. The mystery schools were NOT far off! As for my Christian family--woe to those who neglect their fellow man to serve their God! They will get their reward.

No, I am NOT preaching. I do believe I am just restating something you are thinking.

Hope I didn't shock you. I know we have had our differences. But in the end, we really are not that different. I just don't like Masons being blamed and talked about for things that we really don't believe, teach, and say...and will rebuff it. Just don't take it personally...and yes, I seem to do just that some times when we DISCUSS things. And I shouldn't. I am working on that. Be patient with me.

Blessings!

--------------------
KTMason

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ktmason
member


Reged: 11/30/05
Posts: 172
Loc: Texas
Re: Ready to give up new [Re: ktmason]
      #8935 - 03/04/08 02:08 AM

Darn, must be my mad cow...forgot to add....
Yes, I fully understand about the Mahdi also. I am fully informed about Islam, which is why I take a somewhat conservative stance on defense. I SEE what some of the Christian fundementalists are capable of (we all have--can you say "inquisition?") and IF you are honest, and IF you can take a TRUE look at the Middle East, you can see what will be in store IF things truly get out of hand.

It scares me. It scares me a lot.

I visited England 4 years ago. Mosques were everywhere. I have family there, and they were getting very nervous. Later, of course, the subway disaster happened.

I have a female cousin that is married to a Muslim. HE is nervous. He says the presure is on to be fundementalist.

The problem is the world will not be warring against a nation....it will be warring against a religion.

THAT, my friends, is VERY scary indeed.

I have no further comment. I really dont know what to say.

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KTMason

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KnightShadow841
stranger


Reged: 02/24/08
Posts: 3
Re: Ready to give up new [Re: ktmason]
      #8936 - 03/04/08 07:30 AM

I Guess the discussion has gotten tracked onto a different topic. So I guess nobody is interested in if Dan Brown gave up? or if something else is keeping him from publishing?

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ktmason
member


Reged: 11/30/05
Posts: 172
Loc: Texas
Re: Ready to give up new [Re: KnightShadow841]
      #8937 - 03/04/08 07:48 AM

Well Knight, what have you got? We pretty much went through most of the theories. There is nothing coming from his publishers. We know he's explored D.C., we know he has visited the Masonic sites (verified by the Masons), and the next big possibility is July 4th or October this year.

What say you? (by the way, we vear off hear quite a bit--dont take it personally)

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KTMason

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KnightShadow841
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Reged: 02/24/08
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Re: Ready to give up new [Re: ktmason]
      #8938 - 03/05/08 08:29 AM

I haven't had time to check some of the other threads much yet, so I haven't noticed. I don't take vering off personally as the thread really isn't about me personally.

Now for my theory: I don't know how much anyone knows about this, but Dan was also in Salt Lake City Utah doing some of his reasearch. I don't know if you knew this or not. Part of the reaserching he did was in the Historical Archives of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (the Mormons)(this part I know for sure as it was on the local news here). Now I don't know what you all know about the archive complex (to get the right picture of it think Norad but with guys in suits not uniforms, and the opening is a solid 100 or 200 feet of steel and reinforced concrete). What you will probably not be aware of, in order to gain access to research material in the Archive complex you have to sign a legal waiver/contract that gives Editorial Rights to the Mormon church for whatever it is you research, and they can change what they want of your novel/manuscript or research paper/article, or it may never see the light of day. Part of the contract is an agreement that while your work is being edited you can't talk about it. Maybe I could say that better, you can talk about your work in general you just can't mention anything that the Mormon church is doing to your work or that they have a disagreement with you on it. Now I have no way to verify any of this independently and most of this idea is based on apocraphal stories of people who say they ran afoul of the LDS church. I don't have any problems with the Leaders of the Church or Members of it or the church doctrine, so don't misunderstand me I am not trying to bogey man them in anyway, though that may be just what I did.

I think what happened is Dan included something about Mormons that might sound or look like what he did to Opus Daei(I don't know latin, I have no idea if that's right) and since he had to sign an agreement allowing the LDS church access to his work for editing "Prepublication" he's having to negociate with them about what he can write in the novel about them.

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Dazzle
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Re: Ready to give up new [Re: KnightShadow841]
      #8943 - 03/11/08 09:38 PM

Quote:

KnightShadow841 said:
I guess nobody is interested in if Dan Brown gave up?



I have my fingers crossed, anyway.

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EVDebs
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Reged: 07/10/05
Posts: 272
Re: Ready to give up new [Re: ktmason]
      #8944 - 03/15/08 12:25 PM

Kt, the (Christian) eschatology's "False Prophet" looks identical to the Islamic "Mahdi". And the stuff about destroying the mosques on the Temple Mount has always been fodder for rousing the Muslim's ire. Have you read the Graham Hancock book The Sign and The Seal ? Great read ! I'm a Christian btw and the only reason I dropped out of Masonry in the early 80's was because I just couldn't memorize the ritual they were having me do; I just got to the Entered Apprentice level. My dad wasn't too thrilled since (he knew) I'd be 'blackballed' and he was a 32nd degree mason but hadn't been to a lodge meeting since I went through the initiation rite. He was a past master of his lodge and had committed to memory I Corinthians 13. Also, certain things like the Lion's paw grip were things he'd practice on us kids but he just called it "The Claw !" and laugh. Now you can just go on the web and read the rituals etc on Duncan's Masonic Rituals etc. I found the writings of John J. Robinson, now deceased, who was a former Marine who got very interested in the medieval world and began writing about the KT and linkages to modernday Freemasonry.

That's a little bit more about me. I've seen miracles happen and also some things that probably shouldn't have happened ... life's funny that way. Live and learn is what it's all about.

Here's some stuff I found regarding John Hagee and his 'Christian Zionism',

THE OTHER GOSPEL OF JOHN HAGEE
--CHRISTIAN ZIONISM AND ETHNIC SALVATION

http://www.pfo.org/jonhagee.htm

Ktmason, carry on 'good and faithful servant'.

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ktmason
member


Reged: 11/30/05
Posts: 172
Loc: Texas
Re: Ready to give up new [Re: EVDebs]
      #8946 - 03/18/08 08:44 AM

Yes, I know.
But please, no Hagee. I live in San Antonio. He avoids me since he predicted the end of the world in 1998 (in 1994) and I confronted him on it in a hospital one day--in 1999, while he trying to sell $2 "prayer shals" (pardon my spealing) for a "donation" of $20.

Blessings at this Holy time of year!

--------------------
KTMason

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EVDebs
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Reged: 07/10/05
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Re: Ready to give up new [Re: ktmason]
      #8957 - 05/05/08 08:04 AM

Great article on Hagee's Christian Zionist movement,

An Atheist Goes Undercover to Join the Flock of Mad Pastor John Hagee

By Matt Taibbi, RollingStone.com. Posted May 5, 2008
http://www.alternet.org/rights/84043/

trying to 'hurry God up'.

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EVDebs
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Posts: 272
Re: Ready to give up new [Re: EVDebs]
      #8958 - 05/08/08 02:55 AM

More on the lovely Rev. Hagee,

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/23/hagee-katrina-mccain/

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Digital_Fortress
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Reged: 05/15/08
Posts: 4
Re: Ready to give up new [Re: EVDebs]
      #8961 - 05/15/08 02:38 AM

i know that i'm new to this board and that these discussions have beening going for quite a while but i have to disagree. i don't think DB is going to give up on his career... he seems to love it way too much to just throw his hands in the air and say no.
yes, DVC will extremely hard to follow up and that's what's taking so long! he has to make people want to read his new material... i don't know, i just think that the long wait is part of the plot.

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ktmason
member


Reged: 11/30/05
Posts: 172
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Re: Ready to give up new [Re: EVDebs]
      #8963 - 05/16/08 09:16 AM

Sorry, EV, but ya know, that article was bad news right from the beginning. From the title, to the wording along the way, the author HATED the people he was writing about, and there was just no way I was going to believe it. There was NO reporting there, just a SLAM on the Christian faith. I think Hagee is a con man also, but the article was a slam on the FAITH, NOT just Hagee. Rolling Stone (I have an ACTUAL copy of the first issue--yep, me was a Hippee back then) always was against religion, and I should have known going in. Hank Hanagrath has a better article on him if I can find it. You know, its FUN for some to tear down Christians, they dont fight back. Let someone say something bad about Jews or Islam though....OMG!!! how terrible! I am NOT saying you did it for that, but that is how some will take it!

Blessings~

--------------------
KTMason

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Arras
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Re: Ready to give up new [Re: ktmason]
      #8966 - 05/17/08 11:31 PM

Quote:

ktmason said:From the title, to the wording along the way, the author HATED the people he was writing about, and there was just no way I was going to believe it. There was NO reporting there, just a SLAM on the Christian faith.




Certainly the author was biased, but he made that clear from the beginning by expressing those biases in the prologue. He explained that he was an atheist who wanted to get a peek behind the curtain of an evangelical Christian event "to understand the mindset that gave us eight years of George W. Bush." No reader should have had any illusions about the author's objectivity--it was clearly intended to be a very subjective piece, a chance to see things through his eyes. Nothing wrong with that; with his biases confessed up-front, we were given all the context we needed in order to interpret the rest of the article.

In a sense, it was just as revealing about the author's mindset, since of course the events he witnessed were perceived through that lens. The people he met over the course of his assignment almost certainly saw things differently, and that's precisely the point of a subjective piece: to contrast perceptions.

As for the article being "a slam on the Christian faith", I think that damage assessment is a bit too broad. My sense was that it was evangelical Christian sects in particular that the author was holding up for contempt, not Christianity as a whole. He was noting in particular that these sects take advantage of people who have hit rock-bottom in their lives, rebuilding them as unquestioning zombies insulated from reality by a thick armour of Christian ritual. In suggesting the dangers of this kind of psychological abuse, I never got the sense that he thought all Christians were victims of this sort of brainwashing. His concern seemed to be limited to the evangelicals, and Hagee's group in particular.

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