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ktmason
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Reged: 11/30/05
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Am I confused? hehehehe
      #5699 - 12/16/05 02:48 AM

Ok folks, maybe I am taking this all too seriously! Is all this conspiracy stuff supposed to be taken seriously? Maybe I am confusing speculation and story-tellilng as serious investigation.

As a Mason, I am in the unfortunate position of looking at it all as serious. I really do not want to offend anyone, or butt in to correct when its not wanted. Then again, I don't want my fraternity to be dragged into stuff thats not true. I love a good story to! "National Treasure", for all its flaws, is my favorite movie--and seen it 32 times!

I read Dan Brown for fun! Being a Mason, and having been in the USAF for 20 years, working for (really!) NSA, I find his books enjoyable if not a little slanted.

I just want to make sure all is ok?

Thanks,
KT

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EVDebs
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: ktmason]
      #5701 - 12/16/05 04:00 AM

ktmason

The NSA certainly takes information gathering seriously. I note Eschelon. And you really should read all the James Bamford books. Domestic spying is an inevitable byproduct of the agency's work. Necessary work, but easily politicized. The movie Enemy of the State with Will Smith comes to mind.

How easy to infiltrate the organization, stock it with ultra-conservatives -- I note Time magazines' Aug. 4, 1997, article Kingdom Come by David Van Biema, page 52: "The FBI and CIA, drawn by a seemingly incorruptible rectitude, have instituted Mormon-recruitment plans".

Let loose in an organization that by its very nature allows for domestic spying, presumably with oversight and controls, and you have what in the '70s allowed by spying on MLK and the details are in Orders to Kill by Wm. Pepper, oops, another book to read !

Anyway you're no more confused than any of the rest of us. I just hope no one decides to take the easy way out and decides to "kill them all and let God sort them out"? You'll also hear it as "kill them all, God will know his own", supposedly a statement by Abbot Arnold Amaury before the massacre of Béziers during the Albigensian Crusade

( see pictures at http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/medieval/trails/cathars/ )

As one of Dan Brown's characters in Digital Fortress asks 'who watches the watchers ?' Besides, conspiracy theories usually involve betrayal and betrayals always make for the best stories. 'DeMolay is avenged' !

(PS Please read about the Pentagon's domestic spying ops
'Pentagon Expanding Its Domestic Surveillance Activity'

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ article/2005/11/26/AR2005112600857_pf.html

(if it doesn't come up you'll know google has 'played' with the link's url...the gap btwn 'article ')


in today's brand new world. Pincus, himself, participated in Operation Mockingbird, the CIA's media 'happyland' project. Does NSA play that game too ?).

Edited by EVDebs (12/16/05 05:46 AM)

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corsig
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: ktmason]
      #5703 - 12/16/05 07:09 AM

Hello KT

I am a Mason from NJ. I laugh at all the conspiracy stuff I read about the masons on the Anti boards but I still believe some of the stuff I read regarding what the govenment is up to. If I wasn't a mson I might also believe what I read about them. I take everything with a grain of salt.

By the way- is it a coincidence you saw the movie 32 times

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ktmason
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: corsig]
      #5710 - 12/16/05 08:48 AM

hehehehehe
Actually, it is! ( a coinky-dink ) My son is in New Jersey (Sicklerville) but is a little afraid to patition a lodge. Y'all have a reputation of being really strict on the proficency! Hat's off to y'all, glad you haven't gone "Blue Lightning."

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EVDebs
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: ktmason]
      #5713 - 12/16/05 12:39 PM

You're not confused

James Bamford's expose of some of the NSA's operations

"Body of Secrets" by James Bamford
http://www.salon.com/books/review/2001/04/25/nsa/

which describes Operation Northwoods, are real nutty plans by the NSA to kill US citizens and then blame Cuba. I would like to believe that guys like ktmason would have the ability to say 'no' to such plans. JFK did but look what happens when you tell guys like Dulles, Bissell and Cabell that...

Operation Northwoods
http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/news/20010430/

A review of the equally fantastic book Puzzle Palace below
http://www.epinions.com/content_30762765956

but it misspells his name as Bamberg...it's BAMFORD, silly ! A good review nonetheless.

Confused. No. All secret societies and organizations produce information and use information. As long as those groups are human, mistakes will take place. Ktmason isn't allowed to tell either of his successes or failures. No matter. We can look into the secret organization of the Freemasons now with Dan Brown books, and now movies it looks like.

I'd just like to know if the NSA has been as effectively breached with SMOM/KnightsOfMalta as the early CIA was. Is there any way to find out ?

As with FBI spy and Opus Dei member Robert Hanssen, and what we know about the CIA's Allen Dulles, Wild Bill Donovan, Angleton, Casey, McCone, and all the other KOM's, maybe you can help alleviate any confusion. I'm still waiting to hear back from Sol re any breaches in Mossad due to the White Russian/Operation-Paperclip stuff I wrote about earlier. If that happened, then since WWII all Western intell agencies have been compromised and the Beast truly has been Reawakened (reference to The Beast Reawakens by Martin A. Lee on fascism reborn in re-emerging neonazi groups).

Oh, here's that other weblink from above, it does print after all !

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/26/AR2005112600857_pf.html

Edited by EVDebs (12/16/05 12:46 PM)

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ktmason
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: EVDebs]
      #5717 - 12/16/05 10:18 PM

EV, you will not find out about Freemasonry via Dan Brown books, or Movies. But enjoy! Brother Corsig & I will enjoy your stories.

My confusion was weither you and others were serious in your conspiracies.

To tell you continually that we don't do that stuff, the Knights of Malta don't, the Jesuits, etc etc ad nauseum, is beginning to get old, so I will go back to just reading and enjoying--and will get my KT sword out and practice for taking over the world--and the final destruction of the heretic Knights Malta!

Get the goat out, Corsig!

KT

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EVDebs
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: ktmason]
      #5720 - 12/17/05 12:41 PM

ktmason

And King Phillip IV of France didn't conspire with Pope Clement V to murder off the Templars either, the original "conspiracy" that sets your "confusion" off in the first place.

Humor us, won't you ?

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EVDebs
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: ktmason]
      #5721 - 12/18/05 05:52 AM

ktmason, ash, sol, all

Yes, I guess I do take my conspiracies seriously. If Bush was authorizing illegal wiretaps via the NSA, as the media is reporting as of Oct. 2001, then why is it that this story, reported by Greg Palast in Britain got reported there but not here domestically ?

FBI AND US SPY AGENTS SAY BUSH SPIKED BIN LADEN PROBES BEFORE 11 SEPTEMBER
The Guardian (London)
Wednesday, November 7, 2001
2001 Project Censored Award Winner

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=103&row=1

Combine that with the 'wargames' ongoing during Sept 11th 2001 (Vigilant Warrior etc, see www.oilempire.us/wargames.html ) , the Ptech (Saudi software firm with FAA/Intell computer access, see www.madcowprod.com/mc4512004.html ), and you've got an NSA with a lot of questions that need investigating.

Or you can just blow off inconvenient facts with the charge of 'there goes those darn conspiracy theorists again'.

The choice is yours. BTW, one of those 'whistleblowing' agents wasn't you was it ? I'd be proud of you if it was...

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EVDebs
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: EVDebs]
      #5722 - 12/18/05 01:25 PM

ktmason

More regarding the NSA's involvment in the recent eavesdropping dustup:

" In 1996 and 1997, I was stationed at NSA Headquarters, Fort Meade, Maryland, assigned to a unit of the Air Force Air Intelligence Agency, headquartered in San Antonio, Texas. Our commander at the time was Air Force Major General Michael Hayden. From my perspective, his reputation was sterling. I remember a visit he made to our detachment and to NSA. We listened to General Hayden eloquently share his theories about leadership and integrity. I remember it to this day because it was a breath of fresh air, in light of the Clinton administration appearances of national security incompetence and widely reported investigations by Special Prosecutor Ken Starr. Hayden told us that his family and his Catholic upbringing had instilled in him a strong sense of right and wrong. I came away from that briefing with my faith restored in Air Force flag officers, and a firm belief that here was a man with the innate courage to do the right thing....

I may have been wrong about the integrity and personal courage of General Mike Hayden. His immediate boss, Ambassador Negroponte is a man known for bending the rules, for shaping political reality to pursue a "perfect" political solution. Negroponte's style seems to have withstood the test of time, whether the "final solution" of the day is the defeat of communism in Central America, the creation of an American-dependent Iraqi colony where he recently served as ostensible U.S. Ambassador, or the increasingly mystical White House mission of "fighting global terror."

Apparently, the White House over a year ago asked the New York Times not to publish the facts of NSA eavesdropping on American citizens. True to character, the Times complied and cooperated. But now that we know about it, the media, every member of Congress and every concerned American, should be asking "Is this Constitutional?" and "Is this legal?" The executive branch itself should be asking these questions as well. Further, the executive branch would do well to ask, in a business sense, "Is this worthwhile?" and "Is it cost effective?" and "Does it work to improve national security?" I'd like to think that, in addition to these questions, my old boss Michael Hayden is asking the very simple, straightforward, and ultimately the most courageous question. "Is it right?""

from http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/121805X.shtml

Confusion over whether there is or isn't an ongoing conspiracy usually gets back to the ultimate goals of any conspiracy. This article mentions Gen Hayden being a Catholic. That begs the question, for me at least, 'is he a member of Opus Dei or Knights of Malta' ?

Coincidence or conspiracy ?

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Dazzle
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: EVDebs]
      #5724 - 12/18/05 07:55 PM

Coincidence, or, better put, synchronous.

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EVDebs
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: Dazzle]
      #5726 - 12/19/05 02:28 AM

Dazzle

Maybe even intentional 'confusion'. I remember hearing about The Third Option by Ted Shackley. Also, get a load of this tidbit

http://www.namebase.org/cgi-bin/nb01/aE

""Tarpley, Webster Griffin and Chaitkin, Anton. George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography. Washington DC: Executive Intelligence Review, 1992. 659 pages.
The Lyndon LaRouche organization has a thing about George Bush. One reason is that Bush personifies the sort of Anglo-American, Ivy League elitism -- from "old boy" family connections to "old boy" spook connections -- that has occupied LaRouche for the past two decades. Another is that LaRouche was a federal political prisoner during Bush's tenure, after having been targeted by the feds and railroaded on flimsy evidence. This book, published just before the 1992 election, gets weird at the end (LaRouche claims that Bush's hyperactive thyroid led us into Panama and the Gulf). But the previous 600 pages are a massive compendium of elitist connections not found elsewhere. Though a bit wobbly, perhaps, the book manages to stand on its own, if mainly by default.
It's also fair to ask what makes LaRouche tick. One theory is that he may be secretly sponsored by the Vatican. How else does one explain the tantrums against Freemasonry and secret societies (such as Bush's Skull and Bones), against Anglican apostasy (dope-pushing British imperialism), and against anything that smacks of planned parenthood or population control (the Malthusian activism of the Rockefellers)? When these tirades are occasionally juxtaposed with respectful quotations from His Holiness, it makes us wonder""

If guys with Skull & Bones quasi-masonic secret-society membership can be "dissed" by guys who are viewed by society as totally without merit, guys like Lyndon Larouche and his org, things are set up for the necessary plausible deniability that goes with the territory.

This website says Larouch may get his backing from the Vatican. And it is entirely possible he does. How would anyone know for sure ? Is Larouch's org viewed as 'credible' in Great Britain, Dazzle ? If anything like over here, he's viewed as a kooky loon (IMHO, and I would gather, by ktmason also).

By the way, Negroponte is a Bonesman and the new uber Intelligence officer of officers in the US. If there is to be any 9-11 coverups --or coverup of any illegalities re use of intelligence on US citizens as is currently happening-- both Negroponte and (CIA) Porter Goss will be assisting in the effort.

Edited by EVDebs (12/19/05 02:32 AM)

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Dazzle
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: EVDebs]
      #5727 - 12/19/05 02:47 AM

Quote:

EVDebs said:
Is Larouch's org viewed as 'credible' in Great Britain, Dazzle ?



I have no idea who you are talking about because absolutely none of this interests me.


Quote:

If anything like over here, he's viewed as a kooky loon




You'd get on well with him.

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EVDebs
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: Dazzle]
      #5729 - 12/19/05 07:06 AM

Dazzle

Although you have 'no interest' in Freemasonry and potential conspiracies attributed to them, or false charges of conspiracy for that matter, maybe you can assist me being that you live in the UK and appear to be up on current events:

Tony Blair promised years ago to put a public list of Freemasons into the record,

""Though Tony Blair promised a public register of Freemasons in the Labour Manifesto (to combat masonic police corruption) miraculously no new law has been drawn up to implement the pledge, now all but forgotten.""

--taken from 'Inside Bristol Freemasons Hall' by Tony Gosling
Oct. 2000
http://www.bilderberg.org/masons.htm (scroll halfway down)

Tony Blair is reportedly a Freemason also, which could explain that; furthermore, since your Talk History site may be interested in the subject, a book on the corruption of the London police, and potentially the government, The Brotherhood by Stephen Knight, caused a stir and Blair's pledge is apparently a result of that book's thesis.

Freemasonry is kind of dying out in the US from our populace being overworked and to burnt out to participate in Lodge activities as in the immediate PostWarEra, as is the thesis of Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community by Robert D. Putnam (New York: Simon & Schuster, 2000).

Ktmason, to consig in an offhanded way, made reference to this in his comments about his son wishing to join the Craft (with one state's membership requirements being tougher than another.

Is Freemasonic membership dwindling in the UK, as here, due to similar circumstances ?

Dwindling Freemasons hope to attract new blood
by Mark Hazlin, USA TODAY http://www.usatoday.com/life/2004-11-30-freemasons_x.htm
as posted to
http://www.askthecomputerwizard.com/freemasons.htm

I know you know this stuff ! C'mon, out with it !

Edited by EVDebs (12/19/05 07:12 AM)

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ktmason
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: EVDebs]
      #5730 - 12/19/05 07:12 AM

Yeah, go ahead Dazzle, feed him! Pretty soon he will get a spot on "Yes, Minister!"

KT

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KTMason

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ktmason
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: ktmason]
      #5731 - 12/19/05 07:17 AM

Dude
Masonic membership goes up and down. Right now, its going down. Its our weeding out period.

We must have sincere, dedicated people, willing to travel. Its a long way to oak isl.....ooooops! Sorry.

KT

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KTMason

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EVDebs
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: ktmason]
      #5732 - 12/19/05 07:20 AM

ktmason

Oh, Bowling Alone again I see ! Sorry, couldn't resist. But seriously, the book The Brotherhood, which I'M SURE you're aware of, mentions some extremely serious charges that Freemasons in the UK have to answer to. And the entire P2 episode in Italy, well...as you can see the stuff being attributed to Freemasonry, if not answered publicly only feeds the conspiracy theorists, as the USA Today article mentions.

Also, you never answered my question about the procedures of 'blackballing' someone. How's that work again ?

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ktmason
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: EVDebs]
      #5733 - 12/19/05 10:06 AM

The Brotherhood (from which the movie "Murder by Decree" came from (same auther as "Jack the Ripper, the final solution" book by the same author), is such a farce that most don't even bother with it....and neither will I. P2 I have already touched on in another post.....it was expelled (the WHOLE lodge) even before the incident occured.

Why not answer it publicly? We have! You have seen it addressed, with all your conspiracy searching, I am sure. Really want a good explanation? Read "Freemasonry for Dummies", or "Is it true what they say about Freemasons" both available at Amazon.com. But you know that, don't you?

"Blackballing" IS a Masonic term. When a person applies ("petitioning", we call it) for membership, we investigate him, then vote on the petition and the investigating committee report. Voting is done by physical ballot, using marbles and cubes. White balls elect, black cubes reject. We used to use black balls--hence the term--but sometimes a black ball would be cast by mistake, so we switched to cubes.

But again, you knew that, right? Or are you about to hit us up with another ridiculous theory?

Sorry I am getting so harsh, but EV, you really do not want the truth--you want confirmation for your theories.

If it wasn't for the other people on this board, I would not reply to you anymore. I just fear that some will believe you. So ask away.

Anyway, got to feed the goat.

KT

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Dazzle
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: EVDebs]
      #5735 - 12/19/05 10:25 AM

Quote:

EVDebs said:
Is Freemasonic membership dwindling in the UK, as here, due to similar circumstances ?




Do you think I'm sitting here with a register or something? Give me five minutes and I'll put it through MS Powerpoint for you with a nice little chart to ease your manias.

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EVDebs
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: Dazzle]
      #5736 - 12/19/05 11:17 AM

ktmason, Dazzle

The world is populated with humans, and so is Freemasonry. "For all have sinned and fall short ..." , well you know the rest (don't you ?). I don't know how far along in craft you are but somewhere along the way you'll have to memorize I Corinthians 13, so I'm trying to be patient with you.

You both seem to have some REALLY BIG chips on your shoulders so, maybe on a site that encourages discussion of conspiracies -- you can check a hominem attacks at the door.

It's still a free country; I'm just glad you're not still with the NSA (no such agency) or I could expect some real retaliation, huh ? When I was asking about 'blackballing' someone I meant in the post initiation sense, if YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. Sorry to yell but this is like the third time I've asked about blackballing someone after they've joined the lodge. Tell me about that.

I guess the NSA has an in-house Masonic lodge ? I've read in James Bamford's book Body of Secrets that the NSA has all kinds of clubs, ski club, diving club, even a gay/lesbian club, how about an in-house Masonic lodge ?

Edited by EVDebs (12/19/05 11:19 AM)

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Arras
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: ktmason]
      #5737 - 12/19/05 11:39 AM

Folks, it seems to me that it's worth remembering that conspiracy theories are the lifeblood of Dan Brown's books--and many other stories in the thriller genre, for that matter. The Solomon Key, it's widely believed, will center on some sort of conspiracy involving the Freemasons in the U.S.. With that in mind, it should not be an after-the-fact surprise to anyone here that these forums are rife with speculation about which of the (many) existing Freemasonry conspiracy theories Brown is likely to adopt for his novel.

If you're expecting Brown to uncover a completely provable Freemason plot, you're going to be sorely disappointed. As he demonstrated with The DaVinci Code, he's all but certain to simply adopt someone else's conspiracy theory (think Holy Blood & Holy Grail) and use it for his purposes. If all of the existing conspiracy theories in this area have holes in them, then The Solomon Key will as well. The corrollary to this is that if you're a Mason and you're upset with the current crop of conspiracy theories out there at the moment, you're going to be much more upset when Dan Brown "validates" some of them with his next book. You might as well start writing your debunking books now.

As it regards this forum and this subject matter, I don't see anything wrong with speculation. If EVDebs and Sol want to talk about existing conspiracy theories (which I believe was the point of some of the threads in this particular forum) here, how is that any worse than Dan Brown writing about them and selling a hundred million copies? If the Masons in this forum are determined to set the record straight, they might as well start getting some practice here, because they're going to have a much harder time when The Solomon Key hits the shelves.

It's also worth remembering that any conspiracy worth its salt can be neither proven nor disproven--there's always an unverifiable element to them that enables adherents to cling to them in the face of counter-evidence. To that end, I question whether it's even possible to fully debunk any of these Freemasonry conspiracy theories. The DaVinci Code is a good example of a story based on a widely-debunked thesis that millions of people continue to believe might be true. The desperately conspiracy-oriented mind finds ways to exploit the tiniest of loopholes. Try this, for example: The Priory of Sion is real, and when some of its members tried to leak The Truth to the press years ago, the organization put pressure on the leakers to recant and claim it was all a hoax. It's certainly possible, after all, and that's enough for True Believers to cling to.

On the other side, though, the overly skeptical sorts have a hair-trigger response to anything that smells remotely like a conspiracy theory, and they're most likely to dismiss such things out of hand. In a way, it's a form of inductive reasoning--they've seen how Conspiracy X and Conspiracy Y have been debunked, and so when they see Conspiracy Z being posited, they reflexively assume it to be bunk of the same kind. This kind of closed-mindedness can be just as bad as being too open-minded, since it makes it rather trivial for deceptively-minded individuals and organizations to manipulate public opinion. All one has to do is make any legitimate investigation begin to resemble a conspiracy theory, and these members of the audience will immediately tune out. What better way to undermine the credibility of one's political enemies?

I suppose what I'm trying to say by all of this is that most conspiracy theories do have some kernel of truth to them--there's almost always something factual being exploited by the conspiracy-friendly mind, and to the extent that it's possible to deal in verifiable facts (as opposed to rumors, hearsay, and editorial speculation), these things do interest me. But what I generally want to know in each case is how much is verifiable fact, and how much of the theory hangs on someone's speculative connecting of the dots. A conspiracy theory that has a high fact to speculation ratio approaches an actual proof, and is definitely worth more investigation; when the ratio is low, on the other hand, it approaches fantasy and should be classed as such.

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ash
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: Arras]
      #5738 - 12/19/05 03:42 PM

KT,EV,SOL,ARRAS,DAZZLE

Dont bring in synchronicity in this. Psychology is science and we are busy talking esoterica he he he
What I feel here is anybody who has been debunking anything about DVC is too quick to jump to conclusions.If one read books by the likes of Lynn Pickett or Margaret Starbird or even Holy Blood etc ,look at the sheer topics and documents these people have combed,Look how painstaking the research has been for sheer amount of reading these people have done.
So may members of Catholic Church have agreed that officially from 1969 onwards church has agreed Mary Magdalene was not a prostitute ,so she was not penitent.In spite of that I have seen atlest 03 internet sights devoted to catholicism boldly proclaiming her to be penitent prostitute.
It is this type of official disinformation that leads to birth of conspiracy theories.
I will give you small example again of my country's history. Aryan Invasion theory was hypothesis by Max Muller which scholars blindly followed for 50 years.Hitler even used it to justify holocust.Today scholars in India as well as west are seriousely opposing this theory because of new archeological discoveries.
Conspiracy theories keep cropping up again and again coz serious research is not done in debunking them as much research is done in claiming them.
We are here to have fun ,why do get nasty with each other.
One more thing to note EV and SOL put forward extremely valid points and substantiate them ,there discussion is serious compared to lot of trash put on the net these days.
Similarly KT and Corsig cannot answer openly and freely because they are masons and cannot reveal everything oops I too am getting into this web am I?

EV thanx for compliments ,Aishwarya Rai is also called Ash by her fans but I am not she he he he. I have my suspicions now that you are an Indian are you?
Is this one more consiracy he he he?

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ash
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: ash]
      #5739 - 12/19/05 04:20 PM

KT

We dont believe everything that EV has to say about Masons so dont worry. Similarly I personally dont believe anything about Jesuites that EV says.
But few things EV says are well substantiated
Well same way Dazzle does not believe anything that you and I post about Islam ( In spite of Deobandi EV pls note)
So you guys discuss ,enjoy,impart info ,debate.But dont start calling names to each other
I hope Sol will be back in few days

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ktmason
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: ash]
      #5742 - 12/19/05 11:48 PM

Ok, ok, again, sorry. I love the conspiracies also. You HAVE heard the one the FRANCIS BACON was William Shakespere, haven't you? In Manly P. Hall's book, "Secret Teachings of All Ages" (the large one, sold by Philisophical Research Society out of L.A. (must go to their web site....www.prs.com (could be .org) they even have one of those transparancies that lay Bacons face over Shakes, and it sure looks like it! Wonder if DB may work on that someday.

As for EV, I have NEVER read one of his posts all the way through. I keep falling asleep! I plan to ignore it from now on after this post.

His question---"blackballing" after initiation. Nope, don't do it. Once a mason, always a mason--UNLESS the brother was expelled by the fraternity in a Masons Trial. It's a serious task, but I have seen it done on a brother that stole, then misrepresented, his lodge.

Sorry EV, nothing good here.

KT

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KTMason

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Dazzle
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: ktmason]
      #5746 - 12/20/05 12:55 AM

Quote:

ktmason said:
Ok, ok, again, sorry. I love the conspiracies also. You HAVE heard the one the FRANCIS BACON was William Shakespere, haven't you?






Quote:

As for EV, I have NEVER read one of his posts all the way through.




Same here. I tend to view it as some sort of pseudo-posturing which bears no relevance to my life. And the names (oh, the names!) that are bandied about by people you've never heard of unless you go to UFO meetups or haunted house sleepovers, etc.

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corsig
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Reged: 12/16/05
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: ktmason]
      #5747 - 12/20/05 06:07 AM

KT

It's not as hard as he might think. I mean I did it!!!

tell him to go for it- he'll be glad he did.

Cory

Quote:

ktmason said:
hehehehehe
Actually, it is! ( a coinky-dink ) My son is in New Jersey (Sicklerville) but is a little afraid to patition a lodge. Y'all have a reputation of being really strict on the proficency! Hat's off to y'all, glad you haven't gone "Blue Lightning."




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corsig
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: EVDebs]
      #5748 - 12/20/05 06:10 AM

I heard this too and they made a good argument that they killed them off. The pope got rid of the Templars and the power they had and the King didn't have to repay the money he owed them.

Literally killing two birds with one stone.

Quote:

EVDebs said:
ktmason

And King Phillip IV of France didn't conspire with Pope Clement V to murder off the Templars either, the original "conspiracy" that sets your "confusion" off in the first place.

Humor us, won't you ?




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corsig
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: EVDebs]
      #5749 - 12/20/05 06:17 AM

Quote:

EVDebs said:

Freemasonry is kind of dying out in the US from our populace being overworked and to burnt out to participate in Lodge activities as in the immediate PostWarEra, as is the thesis of Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community by Robert D. Putnam (New York: Simon & Schuster, 2000).

Ktmason, to corsig in an offhanded way, made reference to this in his comments about his son wishing to join the Craft (with one state's membership requirements being tougher than another.

Is Freemasonic membership dwindling in the UK, as here, due to similar circumstances ?






EVDebs

In Regards to the Masonry in the US it isn't dying out as some would like youto think but actually just the opposite.

So many lodges are enjoying a influx of new members that they have their hands full trying to keep up.

The decline was a result of the incredible number of men that joined after WWII. Unfortunitly they died faster than news one's were joining. As some dies new ones came on board but it wasn't a level ratio of the two.

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ktmason
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Re: Am I confused? TO EV new [Re: EVDebs]
      #5761 - 12/21/05 06:38 AM

EV
The problem I am having with you is on a number of levels. First, I have ONLY a Master of Arts Degree. I don't use the language you do. How about posting in plain, good old fashion everyday, everybody can understand English. Many of your quotes are from folks who talked differently then, and most misinterpret some of the stuff you talk about.

Secondly. Conspiracy theories are one thing, but you make outragious statements drawn from sources that had NO INTENTION of being put together.

You DO understand, I hope, what Hermetics really is? Have you taken a course, or read ANY serious HISTORY of the Templars? (outside of conspiracy books, or Holy Grail books) I seriously doubt if even Dan Brown would link them to the Jesuits? Are you REALLY aware of the history of the Masons, the history of ALL of our degrees, and what they teach? Its out there, you know (well, at least most of it is)

Third. How about keeping your posts down to a reasonable length? I hate taking lunch breaks just to read one..and another half hour scratching my head over them. I have a VERY large library in my home (as a teacher, and a writer, I need one), and a huge Masonic one down at the Scottish Rite Cathedral, and can't for the love of God figure out how, and more importantly, why, you put your stuff together as you do.

Anywho, if you could at least make your posts shorter, and use plain English, I could understand you better--and so would other people.

KT

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KTMason

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ktmason
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Re: Am I confused? hehehehe new [Re: Arras]
      #5763 - 12/21/05 06:54 AM