PMantis
stranger
Reged: 10/18/04
Posts: 2
Loc: Georgia,US
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Hope you folks won't mind a new guy, and I apologize in advance if these items have already been explored, but...
I'm a big DB fan, about 2/3 of the way through A&D, my last of his four books. I agree with many other commentators (on Amazon, etc.) who don't think much of Dan's writing style - he is pretty hackneyed and doesn't have much of an ear for creating believable characters or dialogue, particularly for a former English teacher (Philips Exeter Academy). (Personally, I have some of the same complaints about Clive Cussler.)
But, boy, can he cram a story full of interesting stuff. I am looking forward to what he can do in the future now that he has more money than God.
I am disappointed at the large number of mistakes he makes in A&D, though, and am curious to see if you folks have discussed them (such as you did Novus Ordo Seclorum ). I recall he made quite a few in DVC (which should, after all, be dVC), but since I'm currently in A&D, let me run these by you:
1. P. 34 - Langdon says the Vatican denounced the Illuminati as Shaitan, explaining that the word is Islamic for Adversary and that we get our word Satan from it. Islam is, of course, not a language, but a religious faith. The word Shaitan is from Arabic. The 82% of Muslims who are NOT Arabic may not be too keen on this oversight.
2. It's hard to believe that any educated person these days (such as Langdon) hasn't at least heard of CERN and antimatter.
3. P. 75 - Vittoria is explaining that antimatter is real: "Everything has an opposite. Protons have electrons...." The electron is not the anti-particle of a proton. That would be an anti-proton, while the anti-particle for an electron is a positron. Completely different animals, as any good nuclear physicist (not to mention a first-year physics student)should know.
4. P. 169 - Olivetti asks the camerlengo if he recalls "The prayer of St. Francis," and the camerlengo responds by speaking "the single line," "God, grant me strength to accept those things I cannot change." This is not St. Francis' prayer as any member of AA can tell you. It is known as the Serenity Prayer and was composed by the American theologian Reinhold Neibuhr in the 1920s (I think). It goes, "God, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."
There is a short second verse as well, but I can't remember it right now.
The beautiful prayer usually called the "Prayer of St. Francis" is longer, and begins, "Lord, Make me an instrument of thy peace. Where there is hatred, let me sow love; Where there is injury, pardon;" etc.
5. Finally (for now), on Pp. 242-244, Langdon is discussing transmutation of religious symbols and concepts in one of his condescending lectures to a class. Along with crediting ancient Egypt for eastward orientation and sun-worship (eastward orientation in Christianity, like Islam, is usually ascribed to pointing towards a special site, respectively Jerusalem and Mecca), Langdon says Christianity got its idea of the Eucharist (Holy Communion)from the Aztecs. Folks, Chrisitianity, like most faiths, did not develop in a vacuum, and certainly picked up many ideas and traditions from other cultures, including virgin birth and resurrection; but since the Aztecs didn't show up until around 900 CE (AD), I don't think these vicious people can get the credit for the wine and wafer!
Anyway, I've overstayed my welcome. Nitpicking? Well, these complaints are just off the top of my head after discovering your board; we haven't even considered art history, the Italian language, or Mickey Mouse watches (they've been around a long time, and there are battery-operated models, as some of you have pointed out). To paraphrase, "nitpicking, like a contact lens, is in the eye of the beholder."
What do you think?
-------------------- The Universe is not only stranger than we imagine - it is stranger than we CAN imagine.
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Sephia
Supreme Goddess
Reged: 11/28/03
Posts: 876
Loc: MA, USA
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good points. I guess Brown either misread his notes or didn;t bother to check a few things. One thing, though: Until I read A&D, I knew nothing of CERN or antimatter. Humanities people often dont....
-------------------- "Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind
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langdon_lover
journeyman
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 66
Loc: England UK
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i don't think it particularly matters if brown made mistakes..it still made a good read
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Sephia
Supreme Goddess
Reged: 11/28/03
Posts: 876
Loc: MA, USA
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true. its only if the mistake is so big that it invalidates something in the book that it particularly matters. Still, it is annoying to be picking through mistakes while reading.
-------------------- "Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind
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danaholic
member
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Kent, England
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I never really notice errors like this when I am reading a book.
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langdon_lover
journeyman
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 66
Loc: England UK
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same here, i only notice them now you have pointed them out. i think i was too caught up in the action to notice errors lol
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AAnnAArchy
Gifted Procrastinator
Reged: 10/20/03
Posts: 643
Loc: Las Vegas
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I only notice misspellings and poor grammar. There aren't that many subjects in which I'm expert enough to know other errors; for instance, I haven't a clue as to which street is where in Rome or whether or not CERN could have this technology or that.
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langdon_lover
journeyman
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 66
Loc: England UK
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i hadn't even heard of CERN when i first read it. i dont really research into anything scientific like that outside of my science classes
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Arras
enthusiast
Reged: 05/24/04
Posts: 263
Loc: B.C., Canada
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Quote:
AAnnAArchy said: I haven't a clue as to which street is where in Rome or whether or not CERN could have this technology or that.
There's a huge difference, though, between getting a street name or location wrong and claiming that Technology X is real, working, and available today. If you repeat these claims and they turn out to be incorrect, which error makes you look like a bigger fool? People get place names wrong and mess up their directions all the time, but you go out on a limb when you buy into an unverified claim in a work of fiction.
Brown doesn't help the situation by assuring readers at the beginnings of his books that the organizations and technologies he references are real--he's effectively asking you to believe him because...he says so. He does have a "secrets" page on his website, though, which contains a bit more information (he calls these "Bizarre True Facts"), but almost no references to support it. Only the Digital Fortress "secret archives" page contains any links to external sources. There's not a word on the Deception Point secrets page about antimatter, not even a link to an encyclopedia article on the subject, for those who might want to learn more about it. He's not making it any easier for readers to check up on his claims (apart from the Digital Fortress links I mentioned).
To many people it may not matter where the line between fact and fantasy lies in a work of fiction--they're in it solely to be entertained. When you watch a James Bond movie and see the spy gadgets being used, do you believe that all of those devices really exist, or do you conversely believe that since the movies themselves are done in an over-the-top style they have some license to use fantasy gadgets as well? With a history of twenty Bond movies to guide us, we can spot the patterns, the formulas, the style and come to a pretty quick assessment of how "real" their depictions are likely to be.
It's harder to make that call when there's only a handful of works to look at, and when you read your first Dan Brown novel you don't know what to think, since there's no established style to compare it to. You don't know whether to take his "believe me, this is real" claim seriously, or with skepticism.
My gut feeling after having read all four of his books is that Brown enjoys playing a "what if" game with facts, choosing conspiracy theories and rumours and weaving stories around them. There's no harm in that, as long as the reader understands that some of the technologies Brown describes are only rumoured to exist, and that some of the history he shares with us involves theories about what might have happened.
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PMantis
stranger
Reged: 10/18/04
Posts: 2
Loc: Georgia,US
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Thanks for you comments. I guess my (overblown) reaction was prompted because I find that the more accurate an author is in little things, the more likely I am to be willing to take the big plot leaps he proposes. I also find the story generally more enjoyable. At least I know somebody has looked at the book at least once before they plugged a $30.00 price tag on it. That "It's in Islam..." really rankles me.
-------------------- The Universe is not only stranger than we imagine - it is stranger than we CAN imagine.
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obliquity
stranger
Reged: 10/25/04
Posts: 2
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Well i really enjoyed the book and I don't really catch these mistakes, it was a particularily exciting read but I do know that Brown made a few mistakes in the DaVinci Code. But i have to agree on that Brown isn't that great at creating believable characters. But he sure knows how to surprise you.
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sotpyrk
stranger
Reged: 11/22/04
Posts: 6
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On page 245, it is stated that the Superdome was built in 1960. Construction started on 8/11/71 and it opened on 8/3/75.
-------------------- The most dangerous enemy is that which no one fears.
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ThatGirl
stranger
Reged: 11/24/04
Posts: 15
Loc: California
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Please take my comments in the way they are intended, which is with a sense of humor.  If a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, then a lot of it can be downright tedious! As one of the less-educated masses whom you must be trying to protect from misinformation, I can say that I thoroughly enjoyed A&D, without taking any of it as actual fact. It is fiction, and that is exactly how I "absorbed" it. It is all far-fetched and fun. I don't usually believe much of anything in a work of fiction.
On the other hand, I'm sure when my son reads A&D, he will also see all of these errors, and be rankled by them. LOL!
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