Encyclogirl
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Reged: 11/06/03
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Hey, does anyone know why the translation for this doesn't match up to what Langdon said it meant in the book? The translation reads as "New World Order", not "New Secular Order", and I'd like to know if Dan's right, and where he's sourcing it at. Any thoughts?
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AAnnAArchy
Gifted Procrastinator
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Loc: Las Vegas
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I checked out a bunch of different sites and there seem to be people in each camp.
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Mudpuppy
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Loc: Las Vegas, NV
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I studied a couple of years of Latin, but I'm very rusty. All I can really interpret from memory, and some Google searches, is the following:
Novus means "new" as in "fresh or revolutionary" Ordo means "order" or "arrangement", as if you've organized something Seclorum, according the website "Words" (hosted at the University of Notre Dame) means "the world/universe; secular/temporal/earthly/worldly affairs/cares/temptation".
And therein lies the problem, I guess. No one is arguing over the "new order" part... it's the "seclorum" which is causing all the trouble, and it could mean "world" and it could mean "secular". It could apparently also mean "temporal", so I don't think anyone really has a definitive answer.
Check out the "Words" website here: http://lysy2.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/words.exe?seclorum
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kennys2006
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Reged: 11/26/03
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OK you guys! This is on the back of the dollar bill right, well I have a different question... What is MDCCLXXVI? This is at the base of the pyramid. Is this a date? Seems like it... I don't know though. Maybe it's just a date and something simple. 1776, maybe?
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Mudpuppy
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It would definitely be a date -- those are all Roman numerals. My high school math is a bit rusty, but I'm I think you're absolutely correct when you say "1776".
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kennys2006
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Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 22
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Quote:
Mudpuppy said: It would definitely be a date -- those are all Roman numerals. My high school math is a bit rusty, but I'm I think you're absolutely correct when you say "1776".
Thanks Mudpuppy! (I thought it was some interesting little big conspiracy. I love these books! ) Has anyone figured out the "Ultimate Code"????
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SomeCanadianGuy
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Reged: 12/28/03
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I'm an AP Latin Student at my High School. I've done a lot of research to get this translation down exactly. I've read the books, and loved them.
The Great Seal has three Latin writings.
On top - "Annuit Coeptis". This very easily translates as "The Begining has Begun".
The roman numerals translate to 1776.
On the bottom - "Novus Ordo Seclorum" is a bit harder. Novus, at least in all the Virgil and Cicero I've translated, means "New". "Ordo" translates into "Order" quite literally. "Seclorum" is a bit harder. Seclorum isn't really a purely Latin word. Its basically what my Latin teacher calls "Lawyer Latin". Its a word made up by modern day intellectuals to suit their purpose. Seclorum sounds like Secular, and that was probably the intent. I of course could be wrong, but the word doesn't appear in my Latin dictionary, textbook, or in any of the works I've translated. Of course, the verb could be highly irregular and is conjugates to a very different word, so it would be hidden from my view in a Latin dictionary.
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Sephia
Supreme Goddess
Reged: 11/28/03
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Loc: MA, USA
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The Roman numerals do say 1776. According to the officila US translation, its New World order. Secular doesn't really make much sense considering "In God We Trust" and other religious references, like the eye on the pyramid.
-------------------- "Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind
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Sephia
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I just did some research...."Novus Ordum Seclorum" is "A new order has begun" and "Annuit Coeptis", the latin phrase above the pyramid on the $1 bill means 'God has favored our undertaking" some of these phrases are from Ben Franklin.
-------------------- "Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind
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SomeCanadianGuy
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I'm almost 100% positive "Annuit Coeptis" does not mean "God ha favored our undertaking". Annuit has it's roots in the Latin word for year. It is commonly used in Latin verse to signal the symbolic changing seaons (particularly Winter to Spring), or the begining of a great task (for example, Aeneas setting sail for Libya).
Coeptis is a form of the verb Coepio (coepi, coeptum, meaning to begin), adapted into a noun, forming coeptus. Coeptis is a form of coeptus.
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Aurora
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Reged: 12/29/03
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"A New Order of the Ages" is what i've found for it to translate into...I'm really into finding out more of the symblosim on the dollar bill. It's fasciniting me!
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Sephia
Supreme Goddess
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maybe...I got the info from a website (I forgot which) with a bunch of US dollar info....??
-------------------- "Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind
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Zirias
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Is it in English the same as in German, that the adjective of world, worldly (Welt, weltlich) just means secular? The opposite of "weltlich" (worldly) is "geistlich" (spiritual), so I think it makes sense to consider "Novus Ordo Seclorum" anti-religious.
Greets, Ziri
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Tyren
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Reged: 02/16/04
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I'm not sure if this helps at all, but you kept referring to the roman numeral 1776. I had recently been looking random conspiracies on the Illuminati, and that number rang a bell. This is what i found at http://etica3000.com/TheIlluminatiConspiracyforaNewWorldOrder/files/illuminati.html
May 1, 1776, was the most important date in Freemasonry's Luciferic New World Order Plans...Adam Weishaupt, founded a secret society called the Ancient and Illuminated Seers of Bavaria (AISB for short).
While the Illuminati is said to have ties back 4000 yrsi think this was the actual creation to what we know today as the Illuminati. (hope it helps... or maybe everyone knew that ;-) )
Edited by Tyren (02/16/04 06:10 PM)
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Honesty
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Reged: 03/05/04
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And, on a blatantly obvious and non-conspiracy grounding, don't forget the historic event of July 4th, 1776.
True, it doesn't quite have the effect of a shopping list but I'm surprised nobody mentioned it. Blinded by conspiracy, perhaps.
-------------------- I'm Idaho.
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Sephia
Supreme Goddess
Reged: 11/28/03
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Actually, to add in a bit of flair to good old 7/4/1776, I'll just add that most of the people didn't sign it until August 8th! ;-)
-------------------- "Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind
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Hinge_of_Fate
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Brown is wrong when he implies that FDR and his vice president created ”Novus Ordo Seclorum.” The Great Seal was added to the dollar bill in 1935. However, the Continental Congress approved the Great Seal of the United States on June 20, 1782. According to Congressional Records, “Annuit Caeptis” means “He has prospered out undertakings” and ” Novus Ordo Seclorum” means “A new order for the ages.” MDCCLXXVI is indeed 1776. The seal was cut in brass and delivered to President Washington on July 23, 1789. On September 15, 1789 Congress passed a law declaring it to be the Seal of the United States and making the Secretary of State its custodian.
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Galen
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Quote:
Hinge_of_Fate said: However, the Continental Congress approved the Great Seal of the United States on June 20, 1782. According to Congressional Records, “Annuit Caeptis” means “He has prospered out undertakings” and ” Novus Ordo Seclorum” means “A new order for the ages.” MDCCLXXVI is indeed 1776.
The rest of what you say may be true, but I studied Latin for 3 years, and like others who have studied it, I can assure you, that the "Congressional Records" are false, or quite posible the worst translation I've ever seen.
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Silvo
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For what it's worth (and not sure this contributes anything to the already lengthy discussion), from my days growing up Catholic, I remember the use of the word "seculorum" in many of their prayers. The phrase most that comes to mind most frequently was "per omnia secula seculorum", which translates to "world without end".
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JoseConseco
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Reged: 08/23/04
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here's a few more interesting tidbits about the great seal of the United States:
The largest symbol on the dollar bill is the portrait of George Washington. Masons for many years have taken great pride in the fact that George Washington was an ardent Mason. He was a member of two lodges (plural membership being permitted in Virginia), he was the charter Master of Alexandria Lodge, later changed to Alexandria-Washington Lodge. He took his oath of office as President of the United States on the Bible of St. John’s Lodge of New York City, and took part in Masonic ceremonies in laying the corner stone of the capital in Washington, D.C.
In the Great Seal of the United States, as pictured on the back of the one dollar bill, is an eagle whose right wing has 32 feathers, the number of ordinary degrees in Scottish Rite Freemasonry. The left wing has 33 feathers, the additional feather corresponding to the Thirty-Third Degree of the Scottish Rite conferred for outstanding Masonic service. The 9 feathers in the tail correspond to the nine degrees in the York Rite.
The eagle is a symbol of St. John the Evangelist, the great patron of Freemasonry. The arrows in its left talon refer to King David, a man of many wars and of much bloodshed. The olive branch in its right talon, the peaceful reign of Solomon who built the temple at Jerusalem. The 13 stars above the eagle’s head represent Jacob and his 12 sons or tribes of Israel and form the star of David which reminds a Masons of King David’s dream of building a temple which his son King Solomon finally realized. The 13 stars, in double triangular form and one in the center, are symbolical of the delivery of the children of Israel from their oppressors and their attainment to a glorious freedom. The latin inscription “E Pluribus Unum” (one composed of many) indicates brotherhood to the Masonic fraternity.
The unfinished pyramid showing two sides of thirteen layers is entirely Masonic. At the top of the pyramid inside a radiant triangle is the all-seeing eye of Providence that indicates that the Grand Architect (the Masonic term for God) is omnisciently and providentially watching mankind. The pyramid is Egyptian in origin and form, and a free interpretation of its symbolism reads: As the Israelites were delivered from bondage in the land of the Pharaohs and the pyramids of Egypt, so we are now free in our own country, and hereafter we will build for ourselves.
Now, across the bottom of the pyramid are the Roman Numerals MDCCLXXVI, which is just 1776 the year of declared independence. But it may have other meanings as well. Some say that 1776 was also the year Adam Weishaupt founder the illuminati on May 1st. However, since this would have been a totally secret society, it seems like a lot of speculation.
Here's the real cool part about the roman numerals: if you arrange each of the numerals around the pyramid, and add up the base line, the numbers add up to 666, the number of the beast in the bible book revelations, a source of many conspiracy theories.
___M(1000)_____C(100)_____X(10)= 1110, 1776-1110 = 666 __/_\_________/_\________/_\ _/___\_______/___\______/___\ D__+__C_+__L__+__X__+_V_+_I = DCLXVI 500_+_100_+_50_+__10_+_5__+___1 = 666
Interestingly, the chapter of revelations in which the Beast and the number 666 is mentioned, is chapter 13. The same as the number of stars, and the layers of the pyramid in the great seal. ( and of course the number of the original US states, not to mention a whole host of other religous and historical meanings. ) The Beast is basically an anti-christ that rules over the WHOLE WORLD. All nations, languages, people , and tribes. This would go along quite nicely with Novus Ordo Seclorum if in fact it does mean New World Order. The book of revelation says that the number 666 is used so that no one may buy or sell things unless they bore this symbol. Hmmm.... Interesting that it appears on our dollar bill in a cryptograph. I'm sure that the slave-owning patriarchs that came up with the great seal had a different interpretation of Revelations than modern day, scholars and conspiracy nuts.
Anyways, you can read revelations chapter 13 here: http://www.bible.org/cgi-bin/netbible.pl?header=on&book=rev&chapter=13#note_55
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WKShadow
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Thank you for that interesting tome. I, for one, enjoyed it. (And I like the book of revelations, too.) But that is another story.
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DeVine
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Reged: 08/24/04
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Wow, this is all absolutely facinating. I wish I had an American dollar to look at
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Edited by DeVine (08/25/04 06:02 AM)
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Sephia
Supreme Goddess
Reged: 11/28/03
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Loc: MA, USA
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wow.... though I wonder, was all that intentional, (the eagle feathers and the "e Pluribus Unum")
-------------------- "Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it" ~Terry Goodkind
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AAnnAArchy
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Reged: 10/20/03
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Quote:
DeVine said: Wow, this is all absolutely facinating. I wish I had an American dollar to look at
Here ya go - http://www.treachery.net/~jdyson/dollar_bill_both_sides.jpg
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JoseConseco
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Reged: 08/23/04
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another interesting fact, thought I can't verify it. When arranging the Roman numerals around the pyarimd, M, C, and X would be placed in the eye, as I have alreayd discussed. this adds up to 1110. As I already showed, 1776-1110=666. However, 1110 in the Babylonian numebr system, is the equivalent to 666 in our number system. I may be mistaken, but I also think I read that at the time of the 18th century, Babylon was considered the site of the Tower of Babel written about in the Bible.
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DeVine
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Quote:
AAnnAArchy said: Here ya go - http://www.treachery.net/~jdyson/dollar_bill_both_sides.jpg
Thank you!!!!!
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Daviden
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I did not read all three pages just the first one. My brother and I take Latin. Novus ordo Seclorum means" A new order of Security" as in that the banks and treasuries originally making this money were saying that the money was actually worth something. The New Order of Security, the Banks of America which people did not yet trust.
Also this post about babelonian numbers is incorrect. The babaloynian number system was based on 12. a number in the babeloynian system transposed into our system based on ten would yeild a greater number not a smaller one. 1110 cannot in any way be 666. Also this can be done with any number. The internet language Leet is expressed itself as 1337, as upside down it is LEET. the year 2003 - Leet is 666. Does this mean that LEET an already incredably stupid language is actually a big conspiracy.
Edited by Daviden (09/11/04 09:16 AM)
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Mudpuppy
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Loc: Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
Daviden said: I did not read all three pages just the first one. My brother and I take Latin. Novus ordo Seclorum means" A new order of Security" as in that the banks and treasuries originally making this money were saying that the money was actually worth something. The New Order of Security, the Banks of America which people did not yet trust.
Not all translations are identical. There are a number of Latin scholars here who are still debating the nuance of the translation -- if you read all three pages you'll see that there is more than one correct answer. What you've been taught in school isn't wrong, but it's just one theory of what the translation could mean.
Quote:
Also this post about babelonian numbers is incorrect. The babaloynian number system was based on 12. a number in the babeloynian system transposed into our system based on ten would yeild a greater number not a smaller one. 1110 cannot in any way be 666.
The Babylonian number system is base 60, not base 12, and numbers converted from the Babylonian system can end up larger or smaller. For example, "647" in Babylonian converts to "407" in base 10. However, "3571" in Babylonian converts to "14221" in base 10. Doing the math myself on a piece of paper (so I could certainly be wrong), I converted base 60 "1110" to "3670".
(Thanks to the charts here for helping me with my math )
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Daviden
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Again calling on school work. The Babylonian number system WAS BASED ON TWELVE. It is a common misconception, brought on by the fact that, apparently, time measurement is based on 60. (60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour). However it was 12, because they could count to 12 on one hand, just like our decimal number system came from the fact that we have ten fingers. You may wonder how to count to 12 on one hand. Take your thumb, touch it to the tip of your index finger, middle finger, ring ringer, pinky finger. Repeat process on the second finger joint, repeat again on the lowest finger point. 1,2,3,4 and 5,6,7,8 and 9,10,11,12. Now reexamine time measurement: 60 seconds in a minute 60 minutes in an hour 24 hours in a day 360 + 5 days in the year (The original Babylonian calendar had 360 days, priest soon noticed the large descrpency and changed the calendar by adding 5 celebration days to each year. The 5 days represented the birthing or some such thing of their gods.) notice 12 fits into second, minutes, hours, and years just like 60 but 12 has hours in a day, something 60 doesn't. In the holy books of Christianity and Judaism, there are many recurring numbers (Ex. 7 and 40). There is a whole branch of Judaic Studies that just studies the numbers in the torah, as well as the numbers of words (Hebrew, like Latin, represented numbers by letters, just as in Latin some numbers were considered evil because they spelled evil words.). This is transliterated as Gematria. Notice the recuring patterns of 12, 5, and 2. 5x12 seconds in a minute 5x12 minutes in an hour 2x12 hours in a day (5x12/2) x12 + 5 days in the year.
This may seem forced, but I assure you it is true.
Do you know how number systems work: They have each place each reprsenting the base to an exponent mulitplied by the number. Take the number 12345 we have a number system based on 10 that means 5 in the 10^0 place means: 5 the 4 in the 10^1 means: 40 the 3 in the 10^2 place means: 300 the 2 in the 10^3 means: 2000 the 1 in the 10^4 means: 10000 these numbers are used to convert 10 to 10: so 5+40+300+2000+10000=12345 base 5 would have: 5=5 4=100 3=375 2=1250 1=3125 5+100+375+1250+3125=4855 So 12345 in base 5 = 4855 in 10: You do the math for you numbers now.
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Mudpuppy
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Please provide one website reference supporting your claim that the Babylonian number system was based on 12. Nasa.gov states that the BNS was a "sexagesimal system", i.e. "base 60". The excellent webpage provided by Texas A&M University at http://www.math.tamu.edu/~don.allen/history/babylon/babylon.html gives a full history of the Babylonian number system, including four different explanations as to why base 60 was chosen for the number system (page 7). Here's another good explanation of the origins of base 60: http://www.wonderquest.com/base-60.htm .
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8549176320abc
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Loc: UK
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You might be thinking of one of the groups on the first site mentined above, at http://www.wonderquest.com/base-60.htm.
Edited by 8549176320abc (05/22/05 03:35 AM)
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8549176320abc
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The fact that one translation is still not done to everyones satisfaction after 30 posts is why I hate latin if it was any other civilised language you could ask the locals!
-------------------- Governments offer us safety for our freedom. It is by seeing this safety as false that we are freed.
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snoecks
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